[ste]

booooo
the thread stops here...

Maybe get an adult to help and come back and try again?

 

[ste]

On Saturday I did a Circuit Days trackday at Rockingham with the good people over on Northloop. It was intended to be a shakedown before my Euro trip and I had an epic time. The morning was wet, and Rockingham in the wet is like an ice rink, so immense fun. The afternoon was dry so it worked as a really good day to use the car in different conditions, highlight any problems and iron out any niggles.

Generally I'm pleased with the car. Obvious issues with it are that it needs more grip and more power. It made me realise I'm rusty too, haven't been on track since last Jan or Feb. Got it together though although watching a vid from a crappy session in the afternoon I'm 'trying too hard' and often nowhere near where I should be on the circuit. I think trying to 'race' people with more power, slicks and aero had me trying to take too much speed into corners and then messing up apex and exit. Still, had a ball and when lapping with more normal cars had some great ding-dongs.

Kudos to the Northloop lot - some of them can really pedal and were a really good laugh on the day. Lots of banter and lots of 'no f***ing racing' on the track for points in the 'Northloop Cup'

. There were 30+ cars from NL and the others were from Pistonheads. The divide was obvious, with pirouetting TVRs and 'Driving Miss Daisy R35 GTRs' etc being passed by rattly shitboxes.

Pics of Panda2 from the pit garage:

I got the opportunity to get my car on the cornerweight scales at lunch.

It weighed in at 932kg with the hardtop on and 1/3rd of a tank so not too bad at all - it's pretty much exactly 100kg off the weight it weighed in at last time it was at Rockingham. That's with some interior added back in too for safety reasons (dash panels etc to cover sharp edges in anticipation of the marshalls at the 'Ring).

That's also easily <900kg with the hardtop off and less fuel. I reckon <850kg but retaining a heater and keeping it perfectly MOT-able and usable (remember this is my daiy driver) is well within reach. With me in front / rear split is 52/48 too which is pretty good.

Things to do in the next few days prior to Euro trip: Clutch is now finished so I need to decide on one, order it and fit it. I plan to build in some 'headroom' into the spec of the clutch for future power upgrades and also may as well get a lightweight flywheel while in there doing that. Yellowstuff Pads cooked and on the backing so I need to choose some better ones and fit them. Tyres are bald and melted, need to get hold of some stickies and have them fitted to my spare wheels. Brake and clutch fluid boiled and is now 'soft'. Have ordered some Superblue to put in, the last lot is 6 months old or so. Will take the opportunity to replace the braided hose on the near-side rear that hasn't ever been replaced following my pre-Brands Hatch split hose incident last year. My airbox has melted from the heat in the engine bay, need to sort that out. I also have a few perished looking coolant hoses that have cooked from the heat too despite me covering with reflective blanket material - will get a set of the black AK Automotive silicone ones on and heat wrap them better. I've also bought a set of Ultra Racing adjustable thicker ARBs that I need to fit. Don't have long to turn it around but fundamentally the car's good and achieved exactly what I hoped.

Unsure of future plans re. power though. Jenvey throttle bodies would really suit the car but I'm unsure I'll have the power i really want afterwards...

 

[14500rpm]

Unsure of future plans re. power though. Jenvey throttle bodies would really suit the car but I'm unsure I'll have the power i really want afterwards...

How about a S2000/F20C swap? If/when Vindis tubular subframes come to fruition you could loose some more weight of the car as well. I seem to remember the standard diff in the S2000 is the same/similar to the MX5 one which if true could save some buggering about. Of course a supercharger is the easiest way to more power, throttle bodies don't seem to be worth the hassle on the Mazda engine.

 

[ste]

Hadn't seen that thread before - interesting stuff. I do like the idea of an F20.

 

[Jon L]

I believe there is someone on here who is actually planning on fitting an F20C, can't recall the name though. Personally I'd have thought a vauxhall redtop would be a good option, they make good power and aren't anywhere near as expensive (I don't think)

Ste - how did the tyres perform on track, I presume you were using the Hankooks? Also I don't suppose you uploaded any videos of the day, would be interesting to see

 

[ste]

Yeah I only had the Hankooks - they were a really good compromise between the wet and dry sessions. Obviously proper wets would have been better in the wet and cut slicks would have been better in the dry but they were fairly stable all day and coped with standing water and a completely dry track equally well.

I didn't take any video, although there's a fair bit other's have filmed following my car popping up on Youtube.

 

[ecksjay]

supercharger would be a very cheap and easy way to sort the power. for the sake of what, a grand, you could have a fat load of power and you already have the ecu etc to handle it. you'd have it all on in a weekend, leaving only map tweaks to do (or a full remap by someone in the know - not sure on all the auto-tune stuff and whether it's actually feasibly once you start with forced induction).

good to see she's still pounding round rockingham. I personally didn't like it there (much prefer combe, as it's quicker) but it is a good laugh.

 

[ste]

You could be right. The thing is with FI is the heat management aspect and reliability on track. I also reckon there's a big weight difference between adding a supercharger, the necessary ancillaries and an intercooler compared to removing the inlet manifold and all that goes with that and fitting throttle bodies. Probably 50kg difference?

M45 will get me to 220bhp(?) and if Jenvey are to be believed TBs will get me near 180bhp. Is 40bhp more worth the heat and extra weight right at the front and high up?

I'm still keeping my options open though and literally daily am alternating between throttle bodies, M45, M62 and even a turbo. Have read Golden and Salamis build threads recently and quite fancy a T28 from a GTiR. At least that way you're adding the weight and heat issues but you get a proper power increase.

Or, binning it all and doing an engine swap.

Totally undecided...

For now I just want to sort the niggles and drive the wheels off it for the summer.

 

[ecksjay]

it's not just the bhp, it's the torque aswell. im an absolute turbo fanboy, but i would still say that in your situation, a supercharger may be the better route.

yeah they're heavy, but the power increase you get all but mitigates any weight added. even at low boost, the additional power makes a hell of a difference, you dont even need to rev them, just use the low down torque to pull you out of corners etc.

GTiR turbos are a slightly different configuration, i'd be inclined to use a T25/28 from an S13/14/15, as they tend to be a more useful configuration for use on the mazda (i.e the pulsar engine configuration is transverse for use with the 4wd system, S-body is essentially the same as the mazda, engine configuration wise). The one on my turbo was a T25G, which is the same as fitted to some S13's - specifically the import RPS13's. All much of a muchness with a standard T28 from an S14 however, which is what I would probably use, as they're very cheap and readily available. They'll provide all you could want and are the ideal configuration for a mazda. The pulsar turbos would need some pissing about to get them in the right place, whereas the S-body version is there already, and most of the 'off the shelf' manifolds and downpipes are setup for them to begin with. The HKS kit on mine all used standard nissan flanges, so i could whip off the T25G and throw on any other S-body T25/28 series turbo, with only the compressor housing being slightly different (simple fix). all the main flanges were identical, this is the same for the majority of the aftermarket kits, as mentioned.

Realistically, a supercharger or turbo will give you more than ITB's ever could, probably for less money too. Weight is an issue, countered by the increase in power and torque (im sure you have mates nearby that could take you for a ride in their charged motors - the guy who bought my RS turbo lives round your way).

with respect to heat, yeah thats an issue, however even without a fmic i didnt have an issue pounding round combe. it gets warm, but you just learn to keep an eye on things. not sure how they compare heat wise to superchargers, I would probably guess that SC's run slightly cooler, but I really don't know if it's directly comparable.

 

[ste]

yeah they're heavy, but the power increase you get all but mitigates any weight added. even at low boost, the additional power makes a hell of a difference, you dont even need to rev them, just use the low down torque to pull you out of corners etc.

You're talking about driving in a straight line though. You make up more time on track being able to stop and turn quicker. Weight is the enemy of this.

I also get more pleasure in revving a car around the dial and feeling you're working the car hard. Watching some turbo MX5s on track they end up getting driven like turbo diesels, on a wave of torque and short shifting. It looks very boring.

I'm yet to be genuinely impressed by an FI MX5 on track. I'm sure there are quick ones out there but I haven't seen one. A combination of the weight they're carrying and the nature of the power delivery seems to make them disappointingly slower than you'd hope.

Bear in mind I'm arguing because I'm trying to explore this in my own mind. I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying. I'm just weighin git all up and trying to decide what would suit me the most. I'm also not racing - this is all about getting the most fun out of the car.

 

[ScORTED]

sounds like an S2000 engine would sort you out (as mentioned before) is there much of a weight different between your engine and a 2.5 bottom end with a mk2 rs head? because that with ITBs and some benchwork is probably as good as your going to realistically get n/a

 

[ardler_dan]

itbs are always where I'd go for a lightweight track car but you will always hit a wall with power, in truth will 180bhp do you? or will you have just spent the money on a dead end.
The turbo cars you've seen on track are driven like that because the rest of the car isn't setup to handle the power or the driver doesn't have the education in driving to handle it properly.
I've been shotgun on some crazy fast laps in turbo'd cars and in a well setup car it's just a faster version of the same fun.

Dan

 

[Mr Slow]

Hadn't seen that thread before - interesting stuff. I do like the idea of an F20.

F20c has been done a few times in the US, there's a guy in the UK having it done too, he posts/has a thread on miataturbo.net it's not an easy swap by any means.

As for the vauxhall red top idea, umm transverse/FWD engine in a longtitudinal/RWD car? Good luck!

 

[Mr Slow]

I'm yet to be genuinely impressed by an FI MX5 on track. I'm sure there are quick ones out there but I haven't seen one. A combination of the weight they're carrying and the nature of the power delivery seems to make them disappointingly slower than you'd hope.

I've never, ever shortshifted on track. I had 220~bhp supercharged, shame it doesn't still exists, it would've probably opened your eyes the the benefits of FI.

 

[Steve C]

You're talking about driving in a straight line though. You make up more time on track being able to stop and turn quicker. Weight is the enemy of this.

I also get more pleasure in revving a car around the dial and feeling you're working the car hard. Watching some turbo MX5s on track they end up getting driven like turbo diesels, on a wave of torque and short shifting. It looks very boring.

I'm yet to be genuinely impressed by an FI MX5 on track. I'm sure there are quick ones out there but I haven't seen one. A combination of the weight they're carrying and the nature of the power delivery seems to make them disappointingly slower than you'd hope.

Bear in mind I'm arguing because I'm trying to explore this in my own mind. I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying. I'm just weighin git all up and trying to decide what would suit me the most. I'm also not racing - this is all about getting the most fun out of the car.

I agree with you Ste. Mine's a track car so I get the most enjoyment from taking the car to its limits, especially round the corners. Not too fussed about straight line speed. I'd rather have low cost and reliability. If it was a road car, I probably would go FI though for ease of overtaking etc.

 

[14500rpm]

As for the vauxhall red top idea, umm transverse/FWD engine in a longtitudinal/RWD car? Good luck!

It's been done a thousand times.

 

[Jon L]

Yeah, like national hot rods...

 

[ste]

I collected a Redtop Cavalier Coupe (Rwd, longitudinal) almost exactly 7 years ago to the day. Daft car. Loads of them out there in that configuration. A friend had one in his Mk1 Escort and they've done great service in numerous Caterfields.

Realistically though, 10 years ago they made sense. It's more expensive to get a Redtop to F20 power than buying an F20.

 

[ste]

Nevermind just fitting the T28, how about the whole S body lump...

Anyone know how Jamie's getting on with his SR20?

 

[Mr Slow]

As for the vauxhall red top idea, umm transverse/FWD engine in a longtitudinal/RWD car? Good luck!

It's been done a thousand times.
[/quote]

In an MX5? Why've I never seen this before?

Anyway I can think of far better engines than a Vauxhall engine to put in an MX5.

EDIT: UK F20C MX5 build thread