Meaningless question really - tuned mx5's range from 150bhp to 300bhp?!

 

That's a bit harsh, and it's not a meaningless question.

You could argue most FI'd 5's are around the 170-230 mark (on here anyway).

I'm sure someone knows the specifics i.e. you would need at least xyz power to match it etc.

 

if you assume a well tuned circa 200 hp 5 with good suspension/chassis mods vs a stock ish EP3 (which i guess you had) i'd say the 5 would be faster straight line , but they are very different beasts

 

A race on a track between a 150bhp a CTR would be a close thing. When the 150bhp BBR Turbo MX5 came out in 1991 it had a quoted stock 0-60 time of 6.8 seconds, compared with 6.6 seconds for the CTR. I'd imagine the Civic would edge it round a track. But as said, a tuned MX5 might have a dollop more power than 150bhp.

EDIT: I meant to begin with "A race on a track between a 150bhp MX5 and a CTR...." - t'was a typo....

 

As said depends on how modified the MX5 is, assuming the Civics not blown then not a hope in hell of keeping up with my car for example.

 

There's never been a 150bhp Type R, the EKs were 170 iirc

 

EK9 = 185bhp EP3 = 197bhp

 

In terms of out dragging, I THINK, I was quite even with one last month at Oulton on the straights, was much faster in the bends tho hehe

I have circa 170bhp

 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<One thing is for sure, the mx5 driver will be having more fun

 

Yep I'm a massive Civic troll. That's why I have sold it and traded it in for an MX5!!

I asked the question as I have been reading Barry Spiers mini supercharger thread and was wondering how a FI mx5 compared to the Civic.

An mx5 should be much more fun around a track as the correct wheels are being driven. The type-r is just a "shopping trolley with a big engine" to quote my Dad!

 

Civics are ok

I nearly got one when shopping for my most recent addition to the stable, but then thought sod it I don't need sensible so got another 2 seater

I know many will disagree but I find bhp/ton a great simple estimation of performance. The EP3is 197bhp and 1210kg so about 162bhp/ton, say the average turbo MX5 is 1010kg and 180bhp thats 178bhp/ton so should be a bit quicker but not a lot. The MX5 will benefit from weight shift for traction off the line, it'll also have more low down torque, but then the civic has a much wider rev range so that could be beneficial.

EP3 engine in an Elise now thats ideal

 

My old supercharged mk2 (with about 170-180BHP) was about even with a CTR (purely in acceleration you understand

But, my present one with about 240BHP...as you can imagine....is quite a bit quicker

 

I think you will find its nearer 260BHP mate

 

I've had both a Civic Type R (same as the one in your avatar) and a "tuned" MX5. The "tuned" 5 was a MP62'd 1997 mk1 1.8 and put out a dyno'd 197bhp at the fly.

I often thought that I'd trade my MX-5 in for a CTR, but after an encounter at a 1/4 mile strip in Scotland I ended up holding on to it, AND getting the CTR. The CTR in question at the 1/4 was lightly modified (filter and zorst) and was 2 up. First race up the 1/4 was won easily by my 5 (I can't recall by how much - it was a LONG time ago), and for the 2nd he ditched his passenger ..... waste of time as the 5 still won.

About a year and a half later I bought a 1 year old 05 plate CTR. Bog standard with 4K on the clock. Lovely motor and part of me still regrets selling. I took my own 5 round Knockhill many a time, but I never got round to taking the CTR to the track (mainly because of she who must be obeyed). However, my confidence in the 5's capabilities was way ahead of that of the CTR and I'm certain that regardless of who was driving either car, the (my) 5 would always be quicker. Indeed, on the local twisties I always felt my 5 was quicker and more capable.

Hope you enjoy your 5 as much as you did the Civic. One thing is certain though - you'll miss the herse like bootspace

Si

 

If the OP wants pub talk, then I once did a CTR in my turbo '5 but it was close. That was 174Bhp and this was straight line from a standing start.

On the quarter strip I also ran neck and neck with an Astra VXR to the line, I then demolished a Sierra cossie to the 1/8 marker before that reeled me in and then got toasted by a stripped out 205 that wasn't the most standard of cars

Power to weight has alot to answer for, but so does the driver too.

 

I had a play with one when I was running 185ish bhp.

I'm hoping his was modified as it was faster.

 

Depends how the cars are driven, if the EP3 can be kept in the VTEC during said race, stock vs stock there probably would't be much in it, if not it may be faster. You can't get much more than 240bhp from n/a modding an EP3 unless you spend ???? on cams etc and most stock figures are probably more than the 197 book as has been seen on various dynos. About 210 IIRC.

My stock CTR kept up with ~240bhp CTRs and there wasn't much in it, in some cases I gained on them. The main gain from modding the CTR before going FI is the torque gain and the power is delivered lower down compared to stock, but if you can ring a stock cars neck there isn't much there from my experience.

As you can tell, my previous car up until 4 weeks ago was a stock EP3. I haven't had much time behind the wheel of my MX5 to give a proper comparison yet but I doubt there's not a lot there. At the end of the day it's not really how fast you go, it's about how fast you get there and how much fn you have in between and I'm sure the MX5 will be just about the same if not better with 'proper' wheel drive. I love my Civic and I'll miss the gearbox for sure, but times change and so does cash flow

 

snip

OCUK?

 

Gotta agree with DC on this one.

That many variables it's a pointless question.

Depends on.
The driver
The track
1/4 miles or track
The setup (i.e, Alignment/geometry)
The tune (a Full standalone will be a lot more drivable with more power than the same FI system with a RR AFPR)
The tyres
The weather
etc etc

Cheers
Mark

 

ive had a couple of chances to compair. usually from 30 zones to nsl. They pass the last camera and drop cogs, while i just put my foot down. A couple of gears for them later, and they start gaining ground on my 150bhp. There is not a lot in it, but there quicker in a straight line. It looks a lot of effort though.

 

I've got an RS-Ltd with M45 @ 5 psi, so THEORETICALLY, it could be up to about 180 bhp, although I suspect its slightly less TBH. (Steve at MX5motors drove mine and he said it felt on par with 175 bhp '5s that he'd driven).

My old car was a 98-spec JDM Integra Type-R, on paper 197 bhp / 1090 kg.

I'll be honest, I wouldnt fancy my chances in a straight line against the teg. Although there wouldn't be a huge amount in it, but I should think the teg would have it in the end, particularly above about 80 mph. My ITR used to pull up to 150 mph on the clocks real easy. The ITR was about a similar pace to a stock CTR EP3, the latter being heavier but with a better gearbox and stronger engine.

You'd definitely need well over 200 bhp in an MX5 to be significantly faster IMO especially from a rolling start, assuming the CTR driver is in the right gear!

One thing where my '5 is better than the ITR is torque, it definitely has more low down, and feels a faster car most of the time, but feelings can be deceptive! That said though, if both cars were in 5th on the motorway at 60ish and both planted the throttle I'd expect the '5 to pull away, as you need to be doing 100 mph in 5th before the ITR comes on cam.

Problem with Type-Rs is people dont drive them right. You absolutely have to cane the nuts off it to get good performance. Its a very jekyll and hyde car. They feel quite ordinary when off cam. Start in the wrong gear in a Type-R and you've already lost the battle. Thus, in give or take situations, the '5 would be faster. Around a track, it'll be a lot closer.

I'd like to compare my car in a drag with a Type-R just to see how it panned out. My suspicion is a properly driven one should be slightly faster. Recently I was out on a run, and noticed that a slightly modified Fiesta ST with breathing mods was about on par with my '5, the owner reckoned it was about 165 bhp. A Type-R would surely be slightly quicker than that.

All of this ignores the fact that the '5 is a much more fun car. I'd rate my RS-Ltd even with its relatively mild state of tune as a SIGNIFICANTLY more fun car than the ITR. It offers more feedback, more nimble handling, a more "kart like" experience, more torque, conveys speed better, feels faster and just puts a bigger grin on your face. Add to that the fact that the CTR (I have driven one) felt noticeably more boring than the ITR did, and for me, there's just no comparison as a drivers car. The CTR didn't sound as good as the ITR, had really dodgy electronic power steering, suffered from poor traction (no LSD), has an MPV like driving position (albeit good and comfortable) and just didnt feel special in the same way as the ITR.

Sorry for going on a bit, but I really dont feel like you can compare a '5 to any Type-R. To do so is kind of missing the point, the '5 isn't and never will be a straight line car in my books. For me, the '5 is a bona fide sports car designed that way from the ground up. Type-R's are really just hatchbacks which are set up as cheap track cars. They are good on track, but the things that make them so good as track cars, make them compromised for the road, they feel ordinary when not pressing on, and when you do, they have enough pace to destroy your license. The thrills that a '5 offers are so much more accessible.

 

The CTR .................... had really dodgy electronic power steering, suffered from poor traction (no LSD), has an MPV like driving position (albeit good and comfortable)

+1

Now a Renault Clio 172 on the other hand suffered from none of that. Just a pity it wasn't Jap

Si

 

agree with tameracingdriver^

i had a duel with a EP3 once in my old supercharged mk1.. ( basic kit at 6psi ).. was pretty much even from 40mph up to 140mph. i was on his bumper coming out the last corner then we both went for it. he started to pull away at the start but thats because he was already exiting in 2nd gear i always had to be in 3rd. if the corner was a bit slower id rekon id be pushing him all the way. i was one up as well

 

For what it's worth, my friends DC2 when it was almost stock ran a 14.2 sec quarter mile. I've had a play with an EP3 in my old NA and hassled him out of the way, but I dare say it wasn't much to do with either of our cars.

 

The type R (1st generation) was faster than my 5 when it was running circa 7psi without an IC. At 15psi there wasn't really any point racing them as the 5 had bigger fish to fry.

 

I HAVE A BIGGER PENIS THAN YOU!!!

 

no you dont

 

I once had a bit of a race with a type-R. Top end speed wasnt really involved as the straightts were too short to see big figures so it was all about acceleration and a bit of braking and handling.

My 5 was a 1.6 mk1 with just over 200bhp from an AVO turbo and intercooler etc.

Im not a great driver or particularly experienced on track or anything. I would say my car was definately quicker in most departments. I was surprised at how few car lengths that adds up to over say a couple of minutes though.

Both of us had fun.

 

like everyone else has said, it really does depend on too many variables

I will say that it depends on how you drive...and who gets the leap on you..for instance, i was following one at a set of traffic lights, he ragged it off, but by the time he was into his vtec and i was into my tubby he'd jumped ahead considerably...he then turned into his drive.

I felt gutted