[Si-Mon]

I am redoing the entire sound system in Nina so was just wondering, what do you think turns a really good install into a top quality professional job?

I can do clean installs and maintain the majority of the boot. But I am personally not 100% happy with them. I mean they match or beat the work of local car audio shops but still.

So what do people think? What would make you look at an install and say now that's a good job.

 

[Pantera]

All depends if the install is for show or precision.
A show install will have all the components out on display and usually complete overkill on the components but visually can be stunning.
A precision install is all about getting the best acoustic performance out of your surroundings (MX cabin) by matching everything from the HU, Amps, wiring, speakers and thier placement all tucked away out of view, where the quality of the audio is the stunning part.

Show install is like engine dressing,
Precision install is like engine tuning.

My guess is that the majority of the NUTZ crowd will prefer the precision install.

Maybe the question is what is the average £££ people like to spend on the audio side and offer them three options, good, better and best

See you tomorrow for a precision install.

 

[BigBert]

for good quality sound u need to spend the money and know what ur want and what ur after production wise....

I know a guy who is actually an ICE legend...i thought i knew my stuff till i spoke to this fella.

he is currently doing my mini install and let just say with ?1800 i dont have much change left lol

Here is his list he gave me to buy/source
Kicker SX500.2 2 Channel Amp for running the front speakers
Kicker SX900.2 2 Channel Amp for running the subs
Kicker Solobaric 12" L5 Duel 2 Ohm Sub thinking maybe 2.

As for headunit's was thinking about this one.
Alpine IDA 305
Alpine KCE 400BT -
Alpine CHA - S634 - 6 Disc MP3 Changer

Now i have managed to source a fair amount of that so far...but thats an example of a small sized install for my mini...

plus ur talking wireing is coming in at ?150, Dynamatt xtreme ?25 a roll and u need about 10-15 rolls...

BUT back to the topic...fidn out what U want before deciding what other think...and dont just think about ur good brands like Alpine etc...bet u never thought about kicker before?

 

[Si-Mon]

Not sure if you were trying to sound condescending mate but you have.

The question is nothing to do about sound quality or anything. I am talking purely actual install. Wire braiding, relays, fans, that kind of stuff.

 

[robsroadster]

[quote name='BigBert' date='18 April 2010 - 07:50 PM' timestamp='1271616601' post='654836']
for good quality sound u need to spend the money and know what ur want and what ur after production wise....

I know a guy who is actually an ICE legend...i thought i knew my stuff till i spoke to this fella.

he is currently doing my mini install and let just say with ?1800 i dont have much change left lol

Here is his list he gave me to buy/source
Kicker SX500.2 2 Channel Amp for running the front speakers
Kicker SX900.2 2 Channel Amp for running the subs
Kicker Solobaric 12" L5 Duel 2 Ohm Sub thinking maybe 2.

As for headunit's was thinking about this one.
Alpine IDA 305
Alpine KCE 400BT -
Alpine CHA - S634 - 6 Disc MP3 Changer

Now i have managed to source a fair amount of that so far...but thats an example of a small sized install for my mini...

plus ur talking wireing is coming in at ?150, Dynamatt xtreme ?25 a roll and u need about 10-15 rolls...

As said above it costs money

I have a full genesis instal ready to go in when finished

Pio head with mic eq

2 GENESIS PROFILE 4 EXTRA AMPS
1 GENESIS PROFILE SUB EXTRA AMP
1 GENESIS PROFILE 2 EXTRA AMP
QED CABLES AND SPEAKER CABLE
NORDOST RSA,S
GENESIS PROFILE 6.5 COMPONANTS FRONT
GENESIS PROFILE 5.5 COMPONANTS REAR
HERTZE REFERANCE SUB AND 1 INCH PLYWOOD BOX REINFORCED WITH FIBERGLASS AND DYNOMATED
ALL DOORS FLOOR AND BOOT ETC DONE TWO

should sound good but like everything else on my car just sat at home waiting to be done

:

 

[Skuzzle]

for good quality sound u need to spend the money and know what ur want and what ur after production wise....

I know a guy who is actually an ICE legend...i thought i knew my stuff till i spoke to this fella.

he is currently doing my mini install and let just say with ?1800 i dont have much change left lol

Here is his list he gave me to buy/source
Kicker SX500.2 2 Channel Amp for running the front speakers
Kicker SX900.2 2 Channel Amp for running the subs
Kicker Solobaric 12" L5 Duel 2 Ohm Sub thinking maybe 2.

As for headunit's was thinking about this one.
Alpine IDA 305
Alpine KCE 400BT -
Alpine CHA - S634 - 6 Disc MP3 Changer

Now i have managed to source a fair amount of that so far...but thats an example of a small sized install for my mini...

plus ur talking wireing is coming in at ?150, Dynamatt xtreme ?25 a roll and u need about 10-15 rolls...

BUT back to the topic...fidn out what U want before deciding what other think...and dont just think about ur good brands like Alpine etc...bet u never thought about kicker before?

To get a good install you dont need to spend loads.. that list of kicker gear is definately not up on my list.
I paid less than ?50 for a set of component speakers that i can garuntee sound 100 times better than the kicker stuff due to nothing but proper installation.

Wiring.. use cat6e cable. It's shielded network cable good for 1000mb. Better than any rip off car audio cable and you get 8 twisted pairs per cable... twisted being perfect for noise cancelling.

always install amps as close to headunit as possible as the RCA leads pick up noise more than any other in the system.. I used to run a balanced line driver before heading the wires to the balanced receiver in the boot again using twisted pairs. look up what the benefits of a balanced signal are over a long run or one which is liable to pick up noise.

Always over amp too.. 500rms into a 50rms speaker is better than 10 rms into a 50rms speaker but turned up to distortion point... amps ALWAYS distort before speakers and the amp distortion kills speakers.

Dont get me started about using resonant frequencies to your advantage in SPL applications.
Anything else you want enlightening about ?

 

[robsroadster]

for good quality sound u need to spend the money and know what ur want and what ur after production wise....

I know a guy who is actually an ICE legend...i thought i knew my stuff till i spoke to this fella.

he is currently doing my mini install and let just say with ?1800 i dont have much change left lol

Here is his list he gave me to buy/source
Kicker SX500.2 2 Channel Amp for running the front speakers
Kicker SX900.2 2 Channel Amp for running the subs
Kicker Solobaric 12" L5 Duel 2 Ohm Sub thinking maybe 2.

As for headunit's was thinking about this one.
Alpine IDA 305
Alpine KCE 400BT -
Alpine CHA - S634 - 6 Disc MP3 Changer

Now i have managed to source a fair amount of that so far...but thats an example of a small sized install for my mini...

plus ur talking wireing is coming in at ?150, Dynamatt xtreme ?25 a roll and u need about 10-15 rolls...

BUT back to the topic...fidn out what U want before deciding what other think...and dont just think about ur good brands like Alpine etc...bet u never thought about kicker before?

To get a good install you dont need to spend loads.. that list of kicker gear is definately not up on my list.
I paid less than ?50 for a set of component speakers that i can garuntee sound 100 times better than the kicker stuff due to nothing but proper installation.

Wiring.. use cat6e cable. It's shielded network cable good for 1000mb. Better than any rip off car audio cable and you get 8 twisted pairs per cable... twisted being perfect for noise cancelling.

always install amps as close to headunit as possible as the RCA leads pick up noise more than any other in the system.. I used to run a balanced line driver before heading the wires to the balanced receiver in the boot again using twisted pairs. look up what the benefits of a balanced signal are over a long run or one which is liable to pick up noise.

Always over amp too.. 500rms into a 50rms speaker is better than 10 rms into a 50rms speaker but turned up to distortion point... amps ALWAYS distort before speakers and the amp distortion kills speakers.

Dont get me started about using resonant frequencies to your advantage in SPL applications.
Anything else you want enlightening about ?
[/quote]
AS ABOVE NOT A FAN OFF KICKER STUFF ..not a fan off any us car audio to be honest ..stick to focal-genesis-jl audio for high end kit

 

[Ben38]

I am redoing the entire sound system in Nina so was just wondering, what do you think turns a really good install into a top quality professional job?

I can do clean installs and maintain the majority of the boot. But I am personally not 100% happy with them. I mean they match or beat the work of local car audio shops but still.

So what do people think? What would make you look at an install and say now that's a good job.

One that sounds incredible but isn't visually gaudy and in your face.

For example, boots full of amps and big subs and huge glassfibre speaker pods on doorcards look naff, but the utterly ridiculous B&O factory option system you can get in an Audi A8, with motorised tweeters that rise out of the dash, motorised fold-away display and speaker grilles that are flush with their mounting surfaces, even if they're shiny metal and a bit ostentatious, looks classy and professional. The only problem I think, is that you'd have trouble recreating that with the limited space in a '5

 

[Si-Mon]

I am perfectly happy picking and sourcing hardware, I can install it all, I can dynomatt (or use the equivilant cheapo stuff

).

System comprises of

JVC KW-XR811 headunit
JL Audio E2150 amp
JL Audio E4300 amp
JL Audio C2-650 component speakers
JL Audio 6w3 subwoofers (pair)
Aura Bass Shakers (pair)

Might have gotten a few numbers jumbled but you get the general idea.

Still don't think I have put the question across properly as am getting answers to questions I have not even asked

.

My question is simply. In terms of the actual wires and stuff as in cable routing and management and other stuff like that, what puts a show quality install above a standard professional install. As far as I can see, that is the one thing that sets apart of street and a show system. I mean sure they have cool fiberglass boots and things. But some of the best ones are simple.

I am at the professional install level (if I take my time with it), I want to get to the show quality level (not entering shows, just to see if I can do it). THAT is what I need tips for really. The rest I can manage just fine. (Except my woodwork sucks, but I know people)

So Ben what you are saying is that say, if the amps in the boot were hidden away under carpeted enclosures and no sign of modification was present then you would rate that as a top job?

 

[indykid]

So Ben what you are saying is that say, if the amps in the boot were hidden away under carpeted enclosures and no sign of modification was present then you would rate that as a top job?

i would

as for the what turns a good install into an amzing install, i'd say everything that you touch has to feel right too, as well as looking right. JVC is directly at odds with this ethos. the buttons are no doubt clicky and crap. it has the same remote as every other model too which is a bad sign.

swmbo's TT has the bose speaker upgrade and it sounds amazing but totally hidden apart from discrete bose badges here and there. the head unit lets it down though. if feels right, but the buttons are badly worn. when it was new, it'd've been awesome though.

bling isn't 'professional' so keep it understated wherever you can. something like the vibe black box amps looked spot on for tidy boot installs
tom

 

[kaitai]

I would rate an install "Show" quality if it could look factory fitted including the wiring. Very difficult to do if you're running extra amps and speakers.

Very much like a bodykits, professionaly fitted bodykits look good but check out show/demo cars and the best ones look like they came with the car when it left the factory.

 

[friendly1_uk]

pro is hidden, which is not show.

Ive not looked in a 5 boot with carpets, but i feel sure the fuel tank and its vast surrounding area is out of view. As is the area where aircon sits, unless aircons sitting there. There good places for amps. There is nothing great about them, so why would they want to be on show?
All that wants to be on show are the speakers and headunit. So the speaker install is the bit your going to be showing. Thats both pro and show in one install.
Mazda faced with this, stuck tweeters in the door bolstering. I personally can't think of much worse than getting a set of aftermarket universal tweeters and chopping them into that clean upper line. They dont belong. I wouldn't call that pro or show. Just halfords.
My answer to the badly placed tops is to simply use coaxials. I find it much better visually and doubt anyone would preffer to see them stuck in the bolstering. If you want show, your going to want a better mounting point though. Perhaps a tweeter in the end of a 1.5" wastepipe. the pipe could then be shaped to sit on the dash, producing a hump like that over a mk2s middle vents. like a camels back (or maybe i cant actually picture a mk2 propperly) Or like the instrument binicle rises up from the flat dash top. You would loose the dash top vents that clear the quarter-lights though. Such an install would deffo be show(off) worthy.

they 6" subs?
I would want them in the cabin on show, to show them. Again, i would be looking at mounting them in the throat of a pipe, but this time going for the back shelf. just behind the headrests, facing forward. Perhaps with the speakers frame only coming 3" higher than shelf level. Like little speedster bumps. Unfortunatly thats the same idea in both examples though. That don't gain full points. You want as many unique selling points as possible, which is why i won't go on... As they will be my ideas and i would like to see what you can do yourself.

 

[yungmannfuzz]

I think the answer to this topic will depend totally on the individual..

Some people like bling, overstated in your face, others prefer understated factory looking things.

One thing that I think makes the difference in all of these though, is the way its done.

By that I mean the time, and effort into routing cables neatly, mounting things straight, or hidden, just being a perfectionist in everything you are doing.

That is why I like working on my own car. Just dont think people care as much- or will put as much effort/time/patience into a "job"

Just my thoughts..

 

[Ben38]

So Ben what you are saying is that say, if the amps in the boot were hidden away under carpeted enclosures and no sign of modification was present then you would rate that as a top job?

Pretty much! Although I was interpreting your original post literally, as in what I would look at and think "Good job" and/or consider to be a really pro install.

If you're asking what makes a good SHOW system, presumably that's what the guy above said about having everything visible yet blended nicely into the car without looking like it's cheaply stuck on.

It's like the difference between, if you'll excuse the analogy, James Bonds Aston Martin and the Mustang in Death Race.

The mustang is your showcar - bristling with weapons which are bolted all over it.

The Aston in my opinion is the professional install - serious firepower, but all neatly tucked away.

 

[Si-Mon]

So what I am basically getting here is, you want the stuff there, but you don't want to see it is there or know it is there. You just want to hear it. It should belong. That would be the difference. Okay, well that's the target then.

The end result should be "stock". Even with the cover taken off the amp it should still look like it "belongs". Like when you take the bonnet off the car you can see all the engine bits, but the bits look like they are supposed to be there.

Indy, you make an interesting point about the JVC, but short of spending stupid ammounts of money (the headunit is already best part of 250 quid) it is really the only one that ticks all the boxes.

Full ipod control (usb at rear), 3 pairs of preouts, double din. Though I am not set on it, it seems to be the only one that ticks the boxes if you will. Very open to suggestions though. I do get what you mean though about it not matching the ethos

 

[BigBert]

for good quality sound u need to spend the money and know what ur want and what ur after production wise....I know a guy who is actually an ICE legend...i thought i knew my stuff till i spoke to this fella.he is currently doing my mini install and let just say with ?1800 i dont have much change left lolHere is his list he gave me to buy/source Kicker SX500.2 2 Channel Amp for running the front speakers Kicker SX900.2 2 Channel Amp for running the subs Kicker Solobaric 12" L5 Duel 2 Ohm Sub thinking maybe 2.As for headunit's was thinking about this one.Alpine IDA 305Alpine KCE 400BT - Alpine CHA - S634 - 6 Disc MP3 ChangerNow i have managed to source a fair amount of that so far...but thats an example of a small sized install for my mini...plus ur talking wireing is coming in at ?150, Dynamatt xtreme ?25 a roll and u need about 10-15 rolls...BUT back to the topic...fidn out what U want before deciding what other think...and dont just think about ur good brands like Alpine etc...bet u never thought about kicker before?

To get a good install you dont need to spend loads.. that list of kicker gear is definately not up on my list.I paid less than ?50 for a set of component speakers that i can garuntee sound 100 times better than the kicker stuff due to nothing but proper installation.Wiring.. use cat6e cable. It's shielded network cable good for 1000mb. Better than any rip off car audio cable and you get 8 twisted pairs per cable... twisted being perfect for noise cancelling.always install amps as close to headunit as possible as the RCA leads pick up noise more than any other in the system.. I used to run a balanced line driver before heading the wires to the balanced receiver in the boot again using twisted pairs. look up what the benefits of a balanced signal are over a long run or one which is liable to pick up noise.Always over amp too.. 500rms into a 50rms speaker is better than 10 rms into a 50rms speaker but turned up to distortion point... amps ALWAYS distort before speakers and the amp distortion kills speakers.Dont get me started about using resonant frequencies to your advantage in SPL applications.Anything else you want enlightening about ?
[/quote]

No am good....thanks for the offer

 

[Si-Mon]

I was sure I was just misreading your tone (happens on forums).

Keeping it simple is what shall be done as I do agree, simple does tend to look better.

The problem is the headunit has to be double din, and I really do need 3 pairs of preouts. I don't want to have to split signals or use a line driver or seperate equaliser. Would never be able to get it set up just right, minimal gains for lots more effort and dosh.

 

[Skuzzle]

a balanced line driver and receiver is an incredible idea in a 5 but if you dont want to use 1 put the amps up inside the dash.. try and keep the rca runs to under a foot long and shield them well.
Instantly better audio quality and very noticeable.

 

[Si-Mon]

Right so what about....

Alpine CDE-W203Ri

Vibe Line Driver

I am sure there are better line drivers out there, suggestions welcome

 

[tattoo-ron]

is "serious" ice really a nessesity in a car with limited bootspace, and with the roof down at 50-70??

id be slightly embarrased at bombing along with decibels very high with the roof down,and all listening to my "best of wombles" cd.

how many of you come to a standstill in traffIc ,blaring ,then reach for the volume button to turn it down.? i like loud enough music in the 5, but loud enough for me,not the nieghborhood. reeks of chav.

sorry.