I think I need one of these powdercoated silver, how much do they go for?

 

I got mine for ?225 all in. Silver is extra I think.

 

Yeh I think they offer colours for ?25 extra, did you get all the fixing bolts and plates included?

 

yep

 

the front plates were slightly more tricky because the forward most bolt comes out very (5mm ish) away from a vertical seciton ot steel. The other problem was that the vertical section was at an angle so the spreader plate wouldnt fit. The solution was to grind off the corner of the spreader plate to fit. This worked a treat. I did the same thing on both sides and bolted it all up tight.

Can you elaborate on which bit this is? the bolts on the L-bracket?

 

Do they have any intention of making a 6 point bar?

 

Do you mean like door bars? That would be quite good but I'm not sure how you'd fit them to this design? The cusco ones just bolt to the main hoop which is floor mounted and the HD ones bolt underneath the actual rollbar onto its bracket IIRC.

 

Just doesnt look wide enough for me, from a costmetic point of view, always loved the bolt to the floor ones, just preferred the look!

But if you want seat travel this is the one to have!

 

yeah, theres no way I'd be able to sit comfortably with the seat 2 inches forward with the bolt to the floor design.

 

the front plates were slightly more tricky because the forward most bolt comes out very (5mm ish) away from a vertical seciton ot steel. The other problem was that the vertical section was at an angle so the spreader plate wouldnt fit. The solution was to grind off the corner of the spreader plate to fit. This worked a treat. I did the same thing on both sides and bolted it all up tight.

Can you elaborate on which bit this is? the bolts on the L-bracket?
[/quote]

If you take off the rear wheel arch liners you'll see that almost directly underneath where the front most hole in the horizontal section of the L bracket is theres a vertical section of steel looking from the underside of the car. That front most bolt pokes out very near this. Enough to get a bolt and washer on fine, but the spreader plate is obviously square where it nees to have its corner cut off to accomodate this vertical section. not a problem but would have been better if it hadn't needed it.

 

found some more pics:

And one of me trying to drive the car back into the garage with no seats! (couldnt see over the wheel!)

 

Off task I know, but love the integra!

Oh, and did you collect? If so did you see the 'hooped' design? Was it as comprehensive?

 

Integra is brilliant!

No I had it delivered. Someone on the forum has got the hooped one though. He was mentioning some issue with having to drill and extra hole to make it fit...

 

looks great, i've just got one of these of ebay, going up to get it fitted on the 20th, glad i've decided to do that as well as i dont think i could be bothered to fit it myself now lol

 

Are these the guys who we keep prompting?

If so.. I see no point in having 4 feet when two larger ones would of been better. I also think the x-bar should of been lower for rear view visability. Its not on the top bar anyway.

Look good though

 

If you mean two large mounting points at the base of the bar instead of the four smaller ones (two L brackets at fromt and two flat plates at the back) that wouldnt work. Theres a grommet that a lot of wiring passes through in the way.

The Diagonal Crossbar in no way restricts the view through the mirror either. You don't have to specify the diagonal, it's an add on I wanted.

Tim Actually rang me last night to ask how I found the bar and install. He's a genuinely nice bloke who just wants to make a good product at a sensible price which I think he has.

The fact that he called me to see how it all went and asked for my thoughts and feedback was very good. I mentioned a couple of very small points like the way the bar was packgaged etc and he'd already said that these things have been sorted out ready for the actual production run as it were. I told him my experiences with the installation which the main point being that the bar needed no modifications and that I was really happy that it all lined up perfectly. The only thing I had to do was cut a corner off each of the two rear spreader plates that go underneath as they come very close to the bulkhead. No problem for someone who is technically compotent enough to install the bar in the first place though.

I think beacuse this is a new venture by someone who may be new to the MX-5 market some people take this to mean that it's not as good as another pre-existing make. Having installed this bar I'm very glad I went this route rather than waste a good few hundred pounds more on a Hard Dog bar which does exactly the same job. At the end of the day though it's all personal preference, I'm quite a discerning consumer and know a good product from a bad one and I'm really happy with this bar. If others want something different thats cool.

 

thats a good point, shouldn't the diagonal be welded to the main hoopfor it to be any use ???

 

cool, i've just been speaking with him on the phone too about if he will be producing some door bars that will fit in with the roll bar and he said he's actually been discussing it this morning and will hopefully have some i can see when i go up there, i also told him im not to clued up with whats good on a roll bar and whats not but i asked if the diagonal should maybe be welded to the main hoop ? he said cos its right up at the top of the stay its still very strong and this is how he does them on the TVR's but if i would prefer it he could weld it to the main hoop if i prefered, i said no its ok you do what you thinks best as you're the man i dont really know anything, he then said ''well actually i was hoping you could tell me what would be best''

he is a very nice bloke and seems eager to please and is very helpfull but i must say that last line really did not fill me with confidence

 

hehe. He knows about roll cages so I think he probably knows it's technically good. He probably meant whats best for you.

Theres a lot of keyboard warriors on here with lots of different opinions on whats good and what's not. But you've just got to make you're own mind up. I personally think the diagonal is just for show and I though it looked cool so I had it. You've only got to look at the crash photos of some of the other bars that don't even have rear legs let alone diagonals to see the main hoop if strong enough by far to survive a roll over in tact. The Elise has an integral roll over hoop and that has no diagonals or bracing.

 

I reckon its nice. It ties a few points on the car together nicely aswell. I didnt realise the diaganol was not off the peg, and its certainly a big part of its strength.

Im very good at being critical though. ive even a bs2391 in it lol

 

Is the main hoop a single piece or two welded together? I was looking at an older style one yesterday and it looked like there was a join in the main hoop at the centre. There was definitely something in the centre of the main hoop and it didn't look like a bend as it looked straight otherwise.

 

Theres no joints in it at all as far as I know. the main hoop is one single piece. I think one of the old designs had the rear legs in 2 pieces to make it easier to get in but thats nothing like the new bar.

 

Ok. So what is with the kink in the main hoop?

 

isn't it a slight bend? The top of the hoop isnt straight, it crowns in the middle slightly.

 

Yeah I just meant, like, what's the purpose of it?

 

Well I guess it's so the bar isn't straight. Why isn't the bar straight? I don't really know other than it looks better and fits nicely under the roof with no gaps. It allows you to see out of the rear view mirror better too. A flat top on the bar would restrict your view if you're tall like me.

I'm pretty sure it's just a bend, i just went and looked at it and tapped it, theres no difference in sound across the bar indicating any joins.

Why do you ask? You seem to think it's odd?

 

pre bent is pre failed

in this instance though, i don't see it to be an issue overall and adds more to the day to day use than it detracts from the actual function
tom

 

pre bent is pre failed

Interesting statement.

All rollbars for the MX-5 have bends in them. As do virtually all roll bars for other cars. Are they all pre failed?

 

spoke to Tim again today and he said he was only joking when he said he was hoping i could tell him what would be best lol (taking the mickey out of me i think lol

) anyway im gonna try and request different mounting for mine more in line with the hard dog design with the legs in front of the seat belt tower as im gonna want to use my car in bdc eventually and i dont think the current design would pass scruitineering.

 

in front of the towers and down to the floor is nice, as that puts the bar to your side. Its side impact protection not just roll protection. It also makes adding bars down the side of the seat easyer. Yet more side protection and some added chassis stiffness if there thought out well. There all gains that add value. You have to draw a line somewhere though...

 

Just noticed that he only 20 minutes away from me. Might pop in and have look for one myself.

 

I think most people know that bends are inherently weaker than straights. Thats obvious. But to say that any bend on a rollbar designed for an MX-5, which is ALL roll bars, is "pre-failed" is a bit of a moot point! Theres no other way of getting around it!

Have a look at the crash pictures of the Hard Dog bars, all of them have bends, none of them failed.

 

i'm not commenting on the corners though. i'm talking about the needless kink in the top centre of the hoop. if it had a cross rather than a single diagonal, it'd be better. if you put sufficient weight onto the top nearside corner of the bar, that kink will promote the collapse of that corner. that's fact. the weight of the car may be insufficient to cause the steel to further yield but why design it in?

i maintain that pre bent is pre failed and that a hardbar sport or M1/2 hardcore is a better roll bar than the M2 sport.

tom

 

I think what people are getting at is this - this bar is very clearly different from conventional rollcages in a number of ways. Given that rollcage design is such a well explored science, people really are wanting to know how this bar is better than a conventional one, such as a hard dog etc which is designed in a very specific and deliberate way to comply with various motorsports regulations.

The bar pictures doesn't comply with motorsports regulations in a number of ways, and given that it's being sold as a functional safety device, people would like to know in what way these differences improve the performance of the bar.

It looks very well made so I have no doubt as to the material strength and the quality of construction, but I'm struggling to understand why this doesn't look basically identical to a Hard Dog etc.

 

It looks very well made so I have no doubt as to the material strength and the quality of construction, but I'm struggling to understand why this doesn't look basically identical to a Hard Dog etc.

If it was identical to the Hard-dog then you would probably have legal issues. Isn't it also like asking why all computers don't look the same, or televisions, or stereos? They all do a very specific job but theres differences in the way they look.

Apart from that, it's all swings and roundabouts isn't it?

But if it helps, Heres my views on it:

As far as I can see, the HD Bars main hoop sit further forward closer to the drivers head, close enough for a tall driver to have issues with hitting it in a rear shunt which isn't good. I nearly bought one but was told by Phil at P5 I may have problems in this area.

The mounting points on the HD are different. The main hoop mounts onth the corner of the bulkhead with an angled bracket, the TR Lane one mounts just behind that with an L bracket. The HD bars require more material cutting out as the rear stays mount further back but as far as I can see to the same area.

Both employ the tabs on the top of the towers.

Both have spreader plates.

You can add door bars on some HD bars

You cant add door bars on the TR Lane bar (yet)

Both will help protect you but neither are guaranteed to

The HD bar with a diagonal and Harness Bar costs around ?500

The TR Lane one cost me ?225

I'm very happy that I chose this bar. It is strong, well built and in my opinion as good as the Hard Dog for a fraction of the price.

It's a shame that after all theh posts about how HD bars are too expensive and people asking for an alternative, someone actually goes out of their way to build one whilst listening to the needs of the market and revising their design accordingly, some people just seem to want to shoot it down!

If you don't think it's as good as another product don't buy one.

 

I'm not disagreeing that someone should build a cage which does what the HD one does but at lower cost. I think it's a great idea and it seems like the chap making it has the ability to physically build these to a good standard. But being able to build something and being able to design something are two different things.

The HD bar complies with MSA regulations, while this bar doesn't, because of the small foot plates and the angle of the rear legs being less than 30 degrees.

The design of the plates for the main hoop is also dodgy. I'm not saying it's necessarily not up to task, but the design is unusual and I was wondering the reasoning behind it. Specifically why does the main hoop not butt directly onto the spreader plates so when the car is upside down the weight is compressed directly onto the plates? As it is now, the hoop is supported by a horizontal bar which appears to be butt welded to vertical plates. If the car is upside down this puts a sheering force onto these welds and is a potential weak spot.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the kink in the hoop, I was just wondering why it was there.

I think the improvements in the design have definitely been beneficial but I think it's maybe not quite there yet. When I refer to it being unlike the HD bar, I'm not talking about making an identical duplicate, I'm more referring to the fact that most four point cages (HD, Cusco, Safety 21, etc etc) all follow the same fundamental design principles, because it complies with regs and it's arguably the most logical design.

My suggestions for further improvements are these:

1: increase the angle of the rear legs to >30 degrees. This should be possible without interfering with the soft top folding.
2: The spreader plates for the rear legs need to be bigger and have three bolts to meet regs. The plates need to be thicker than 3mm and have at least two of the bolts on opposite sides of the end of the leg
3: have the main hoop butt straight down onto the mounting plate and the cross bar welded between the two sides of the main hoop.

I reckon if he made these changes it should be fine for competition use and stronger than it is at the moment.

I'm not trying to shoot anyone down or be nitpicky. As I say, I agree that the HD ones are overpriced, but currently they're the best ones out there if you want to use it for competition. I know this cage is a lot cheaper and seemingly just as well made but from what I can tell it's not MSA compliant so it's not worth buying.

 

Those seem like fair improvements. I don't need any MSA approval so I'm not concerned that it may not comply. Maybe you should talk to Tim about it, he seems happy to discuss improvements and create bespoke cages.

As for the relative strength of the bar, I have no doubts about it at all. I just hope I never get to test it!

 

Popped into to see tim today as i finnished work at 1 and fancied a bit of a drive. The road is quite a nice twisty bit of tarmac and i dont need much of an excuse to drive my car.

When i got there he was fitting one to a mk1 so had a good nose round whilst he was doing it. its certainly a sturdy bit of kit and i was impressed with the quality of the thing. Also had a chance to look at an unpainted roll hoop and the kink at the top isnt welded (forgot to ask why it was there). After he'd finnished we had a good hour chat about stuff and he seems like a genuine nice bloke, extremely helpfull and quite happy to do bespoke stuff. He's also in the process of getting msa approval and is going to be doing work for the mx5 race series.

Im certainly convinced and after ive phoned my insurance to see how much its gonna cost ill be getting one.

 

If you want an MSA approved bar, buy a Hard Dog. If you only intend on doing trackdays and don't want to spunk ?500 on an HD bar hen buy this one.

Simple.

Me? I'd have saved my money and bought one of these instead of my HD. Odd that.

 

Mite be a nice guy, but doesent answer any emails, and no delivery date as of yet.
Will be 3 weeks this friday since ordering

It would of been nice to have put in the ebay advert that they are made to order.

Hopfully should be a good product tho once it arrives.

 

Mine was a month.

Best bet is to give him a call.