[John90]

Hi All,

Brother started removing the Gotech ProX and installing a Adaptronic 420C last night on my mk1 1.6 M45.

He is trying to return the car management back to as close to standard as possible, getting it to run on the OEM ECU before moving on to the Adaptronic install and tune.

Unfortunatly rather than the wiring having been done in the footwell for the Gotech it has been done in the engine bay with the injector harness cut along with many other wires. He has returned most of it back to standard now by reconnecting the wires and fitting the std injectors, flappy AFM etc and the only error code from the diagnostics box is for the missing carbon canister.

The car won't start though, it turns over but won't catch and back fires. He's pulled the plugs and they are wet, and has tried using part throttle but still it won't start.

2 questions at this stage:
1) Any idea's?
2) Could someone please post a close up picture of the angle of there Crank Angle Sensor on an early mk1 (if they differ)?

Much appreciated.
John

 

[Gixer]

Sounds like a foooooooooooookin nightmare John, i don't envy ya bro at all.

To be honest mate it could be absolutely anything, it really depends on what was hacked when the Goshite was installed.

Did he convert it from batch fire to sequential when he installed the shitetech?

What the gowank fully standalone?
If so it could be something as simple as the timing too far out, i guess you've got that far with your CAS position question though.

Just try turning it say full to one side then 1/4 of it's travel each try, that should rule it out.

To be honest your probably better off banging the Adap straight on as at least you've got datalogging with that.

Cheers
Mark

 

[Mi5]

John, stick a timing light on it, you should be able to check the spark is about right on cranking.

What have you done for the injector harness?

 

[ninja180]

It should be 10-14 degrees BTDC. You should really use a timing light to ensure accuracy.

Reverting back to stock should be pretty simple.

Have you check the firing order of the mk1s? I should be batch mode. If I could remember correctly It should ne 1+4 then 2+3.

Have you reverted the fuel relay back to stock?

Regards##~Vaan

 

[Mr Slow]

John, stick a timing light on it, you should be able to check the spark is about right on cranking.

What have you done for the injector harness?

what matt said. John bung a timing light on whilst cranking, sounds to me like the coils are on backwards if it's backfiring whilst cranking. I had something similar when upgrading to MSII.

Gixer, I don't think calling the old ECU names is very helpful, IMO the ecu is capeable, the issue is the installer. It's always the workman, never the tools

 

[John90]

Sounds like a foooooooooooookin nightmare John, i don't envy ya bro at all.

To be honest mate it could be absolutely anything, it really depends on what was hacked when the Goshite was installed.

Did he convert it from batch fire to sequential when he installed the shitetech?

What the gowank fully standalone?
If so it could be something as simple as the timing too far out, i guess you've got that far with your CAS position question though.

Just try turning it say full to one side then 1/4 of it's travel each try, that should rule it out.

To be honest your probably better off banging the Adap straight on as at least you've got datalogging with that.

Cheers
Mark

No it wasn't fully standalone, it was at least in parallel I think, with the original ecu still in there presumably for some sensors, but not sure to what extent it was being used.

Yea he has tried quickly changing the timing, in both directions but didn't make any difference, but couldn't get his timing light back until this weekend so hasn't tried to properly set it yet.

Not sure what was happening with the batch v's sequential, the wiring suggested a different order to the OEM manual though. He has now put it back to the OEM batch anyway.

 

[John90]

John, stick a timing light on it, you should be able to check the spark is about right on cranking.

What have you done for the injector harness?

He has repaired the old injector harness, but I have another perfect one which i'm going to give him shortly.

 

[John90]

It should be 10-14 degrees BTDC. You should really use a timing light to ensure accuracy.

Reverting back to stock should be pretty simple.

Have you check the firing order of the mk1s? I should be batch mode. If I could remember correctly It should ne 1+4 then 2+3.

Have you reverted the fuel relay back to stock?

Regards##~Vaan

Brother has checked the order and changed it back to stock, I don't know about the fuel relay though I'll ask him, cheers.

 

[John90]

John, stick a timing light on it, you should be able to check the spark is about right on cranking.

What have you done for the injector harness?

what matt said. John bung a timing light on whilst cranking, sounds to me like the coils are on backwards if it's backfiring whilst cranking. I had something similar when upgrading to MSII.

[/quote]

I'll pass on the message cheers. Is there an easy way to determine forwards from backwards on them?

 

[John90]

Johns brother here, Hi all. Thought I'd post directly rather than relay the message. My first thought jumped to the ignition order but I've double checked the ht lead positions and they're correct according to the workshop manual PDF diagram. I've also dialed the tps to extreames but no change. The wiring to the coil is pretty standard since the engine loom end was untouched as a new loom was fitted to power the presumably ford coil pack direct from the gotech. The other end at the ecu is pretty easy too since it was just a case of matching up the wires from where I'd previously spliced in the e-manage so the low current side (ie not ht) should be fine too. As for fitting the coil pack the wrong way around I'm guessing u mean wrong ht lead order as it wouldn't physically mount backwards.

To address the fuel relay issue , I can't quite see what's happening, there is no additional wires to the fuel pump, and the 'starting circuit relay' operates ok giving power to the pump supply terminal. Then according to the circuit diagram it's just a straight feed to the pump - yet I don't get power to the pump. I have removed most of the dash Inc blower unit, glove box and center console but I can't find any gotech cables running anywhere near that side of the car - odd!!! So i've run a new cable and pump works great just as it should.

As for the Gotech being installed standalone as John said it's not. The original ecu is just (as far as I can tell) no longer controlling fuel or spark, the Mazda ecu still does cooling fans, starting circuit etc. The other slightly strange thing is the gotech doesn't seem to be plumbed into the throttle position sensor and with no afm I'm damned if I know how it can fuel with so little input data. I am sure there must be a hidden connection somewhere but I spent from 10 pm till 8 am yesterday trying to sort this mess out so I think next step is to remove the water injection setup to clear some more space.

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll check the ht order again and pull the plugs so I can time it roughly on the starter.

Is there anyway of fitting the tps 180 degrees out or is it a single position key? I can't remember how it looks now.

Cheers Ross

 

[Mi5]

Have you tried doing another diagnostic check, you now the LED one?

 

[John90]

Have you check the firing order of the mk1s? I should be batch mode. If I could remember correctly It should ne 1+4 then 2+3.

Regards##~Vaan

The 1992 US Workshop manual I have shows one coil with injectors 1 + 3 connected to one coil and 2 + 4 to the other. I imagine this is right and wasn't changed for europe or earlier models?

 

[John90]

Have you tried doing another diagnostic check, you now the LED one?

As far as I know Matt, he has only done the one, which gave just the carbon canister issue. I don't think he's done another but i'll pass the message on and get him to and let you know.

Thanks for your interest mate, much appreciated.

 

[John90]

Just spoke to him and he said he hasn't done a 2nd diag check but he hasn't done anything since the first so I guess its unlikely to have changed.

He has removed the CAS this morning though and found the back plate of that is missing

, so no idea what has been done there, so i'm going to have to try to source one of those now!

 

[John90]

Brother has timed the car to 11 deg BTDC on the starter motor and no difference so still looking for the cause of the backfire/non-starting. Brother has noticed a possible strange wiring colour issue with the OEM coil pack we recieved back which presumably is our original one but can't be sure (Ross has removed the presumably Ford one fitted).

The car harness plugs into the coil pack harness and both have 3 wires.

The wires from the car harness to the plug from the top are:
White
Red
Blue

and on the other side of the plug from the coil are:
Black with white stripe,
White
Red

which seems a little strange and may imply the comment in a previous post about the coil being the wrong way round? The manual and circuit diagrams don't seem to mention the plug or wire colours either side of it so we would really appreciate it if someone with a mk1 1.6 (if it makes any difference?)could have a look asap at the wire colours on there's, which should be easily visable we believe.

Another curious bit is that if you do the multimeter testing of the coils we get the manual stated resistance on the secondary windings but the primary windings give 1.5 ohms which is more than the 0.78 to 0.94 ohms (@20oC) stated in the manual.

Thanks in advance.
John

 

[John90]

Car is now running back as standard, turns out the CAS with the back missing was the problem, in fact it wasn't even the right one. It fitted so must have been off something similar though I guess unless like injectors they are quite universal. Anyway, brother replaced it and started first time

and as a bonus the rev counter works again

:

So now on to the Adaptronic install. What do you recommend I do from the start, considering it will be 150/60 around 12psi, with chargecooler and HSV WI?:

- re-remove the flappy AFM and use a 3 bar boost sensor?
- sequential injection?
- use a trigger wheel or the CAS, which is the best solution ultimately?
- anything else?

cheers
John

 

[Mr Slow]

- re-remove the flappy AFM and use a 3 bar boost sensor?
- sequential injection?
- use a trigger wheel or the CAS, which is the best solution ultimately?
- anything else?

None of that, just install it and get it to start/run before you change anything and add further complication. Though I'd imagine you'll need to install the map sensor with or without the AFM, unless the Adaptronic supports AFM's (and that's probably a road best not going down).

(A trigger wheel is the 'best' solution as you get timing jitter from a CAS due to the cambelt stretching/contracting, if you want sequential injection you'll also need to add a cam trigger with the crank trigger so the ECU know's what phase the engine is in).

 

[John90]

ok, so when is the right time to move to sequential, once the car starts, after a basic tune, after a full tune? Brother is currently making up the wiring harness so need to know pretty soon if possible?

 

[Mr Slow]

IMO you should wait until you've driven the car a few miles at least on the Adaptronic, learn to walk etc

(again) IMO sequential isn't a major dealbreaker - you won't gain any power whatsoever, what you'll gain is a bit of smoothness and a bit of MPG (not a lot tho!), and your ability to idle overly large injectors will improve). It's a nice to have.

Remember your car is batch injection as standard so you need to re-wire the injectors completely.

Don't be tempted to do too much at once, if something doesn't work you'll just end up chasing your tail.

 

[John90]

Thanks Richy,

He has had to re-wire most of it anyway, so thought it might have been easier to do it from the start but I can understand what you mean about one step at a time, thats why we decided to put the car back to standard before installing the adaptronic. I had 320cc p+p green tops, which then got changed to 254cc beige tops for some unknown reason, and have recently bought some p+p WRX 425cc injectors so as you say I will go to sequential in time for the smoother running as I definatly want as close to oem like feel as possible. This is supposed to be the last of engine mods (can go no further with the m45) so I want a final as good as it can be solution.