What Mk2 Nb 1.8 Drop In N/a Cams Options? - Forced Induction & N/A Power Mods - MX5Nutz Forum

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What Mk2 Nb 1.8 Drop In N/a Cams Options?

NB Cams 1.8 Drop in Mk2

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#1 KieranEG6

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 04:28 PM

Hi Guys

 

Im not usually one for asking questions but searching seems to be just becoming a minefield.

 

What options are available for MK2 NB 1.8 performance Cams?

BP-4W and BP-Z3 VVT as I have both MK2 and MK2.5. Also have a spare VVT motor if higher comp needed on the BP4W.

Im only looking for 170-180hp at fly. Preferably ones that don't need fancy valve train, not looking at silly rev limits, Im well used to Honda rev ranges and these motors sound like they will implode at much north of 7000RPM. Chasing NA gains in these motor is a piss up a wall to start with if it comes to needing valve springs, lifters etc I will not bother and just supercharge instead. I have just come from a 1600 MK1 with Jackson racing supercharger kit at 170-180hp and that seemed like a good balance of power. 

 

I was looking at Cat cams as they seem to have quite a few options and from what I see on BOFI's site they are Drop in cams no Valve train needed??... Had a scan on Maruha site and they recommend Shim under bucket lifters on their cams which look smaller than the Cat cams.... 

 

Finding people running mild NA setups seem very few as boosted options are so easy. I will be buying an ECU either way and getting it mapped NA first so would like to chuck in a set of cams while at it, with the hope that will be enough of a gain to negate the need for Boost. I am almost happy ringing the neck out of it on track as it is NA VVT 140hp, but it just needs that little bit more beans/ character if you get me. 


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#2 Shadowraven

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 06:35 PM

Piper

Maruha

Some very rare HKS that I know of

 

Not much else that i'm too familiar with. I'd giver Piper a call as they can advise what sort of duration etc will work with your goals/application. You will get the best gains out of cams matched properly to a aftermarket header, but the runner diameter, length, collector size etc all need to be accounted for and matched up. It's not particularly simple. There are some NA builds on this formun that will give you an idea what's involved so have a search.

 

There aren't as many cam options of the VVT due to the presence of the VVT gear complicating production and it not being a particularly beneficial/common mod for these cars.

 

If you are after 170-180hp I'd give Blink motorsport a call as they specifically do a package that will make that amount. However it requires headwork and ITBs, trying to DIY a build for that sort of power with just cams and a tune isn't going to see gains close to that figure. Also, the cost to make that sort of power NA from Blink is enough for you to DIY a high quality built turbo set up, or 2 good td04 set ups. If you want to go NA then by all means do, just be aware of the cost, and tbh you might be better off K swapping the car.

 

 

https://www.blinkmot...-power-package/

 

 

All mk2 cams are shim under bucket btw.


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UKDM 1998 1.8 Mk2 Sport - Current mods-  Custom 6 point chassis mounted front splitter and sideskirt extensions, battery cut off switch, OEM 'small skirts' and lip, HEL braided brake lines, OEM front upper strut brace with MC brace and mazdaspeed sticker, custom made 2" high flow catback exhaust, Japspeed 4-1 exhaust manifold, Lorber 15" alloys in fiat 750 maroon volcano, uniroyal rainsport2s, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, tinted indicators, colour coded reflectors, black headlight inserts, LED sidelights, SMD number plate bulbs, dimpled and grooved mtec brake discs, mintex brake pads, de-tango'd headlights, amber bulbs, RGB footwell lights, SMD interior light, Deltastyling spoiler, foamectomy seats, mazdaspeed seat belt pads, ring ultimax headlight bulbs, IL Motorsport style bar in custom paint, ford fan washer jets, Skidnation coolant reroute with Kia thermostat housing, Gates 22436 radiator hose with hose bracket, 82/85 degree twin valve thermostat, D1 spec engine bay dress bolts, stainless steel bolts throughout engine bay, EGR blanking kit, painted brake calipers, painted tow hooks front and rear, wrinkle painted cam cover, de-greened dials with white SMDs, red needles, painted cigarette lighter, painted oil filler cap, custom made cup holder, painted radiator retainers, polished slam panel, painted alternator, painted upper manifold, painted throttle body, painted header heat shield, painted relay bracket, painted loom brackets, painted diagnostics box bracket, painted wash fluid brackets, painted ABS brackets, painted airbox brackets, painted horns and brackets, painted throttle cable brackets, painted charcoal canister brackets and hard piping, painted wiper rods, painted engine hooks, painted clutch line bracket, Jass offset license plate bracket, offset square plate, 1lt foam fire extinguisher on custom bracket and custom Velcro retaining strap, POR15 rust proofed to within an inch of it's life, cavity waxed and fully seam sealed
 
UKDM 2001 mk2.5 - Current mods- SMD interior light, SMD number plate lights, Corbeau Sprint (yes it fits!), modified mk2.5 door card, Skidnation seat brackets, Corba 1046 remote central locking unit, Driftworks basics 350mm leather steering wheel, NRG short hub, NRG 2.5 quick release hub, 8" weighted gear knob, factory electric wing mirrors, factory electric aerial, Kage 4" exhaust with additional powerflow silencer, foam fire extinguisher, custom fire extinguisher mounting bracket, painted cam cover, painted oil filer cap, 15" Advan SA3Rs, Nankang NS-2R 180tw, offset plate bracket, RGB footwell lighting, sun strip, painted calipers and carriers, painted headlight inserts, softtop delete, brake fluid reservoir sock, GCR3 roll bar in custom gloss black, Corbeau Ultima Pro 2006SSU 6 point harness, push button bumper quick release pins, twin port oil catch can, engine bay respray, fully POR15 rust proofed chassis, full chassis seam seal, custom permanent hardtop side mounts, Jass permanent hardtop front mounts, M-tuned large rear rotor spacers with corresponding 276mm SVT brake discs, Freakyparts larger front rotor spacers with corresponding 11" Corado G60 front rotors, HEL braided brake lines, Byba Kits GV style front lip, SVT under chassis bracing, painted radiator brackets, 
mazdaspeed seat belt pads, charcoal canister delete, large Mazdaspeed side skirts, short shifter, 60mm alloy radiator, 3" brake ducts, upper strut brace with MC brace.
 
2004 Celica T Sport - Current mods- Meister Zeta Pro coilovers, Forged Wilwood dynalite front calipers, Yellow stuff brake pads up front, Drimpled and slotted discs, Braided brake lines, TRD stubby aerial, Short shift kit, 17" alloys powdercoated in metallic granite, TRD centre caps, Invidia exhaust, Cusco brake master cylinder brace, SMD side light bulbs, butterfly valve delete, Aux to CD converter, 8" gear knob, sun strip, interior SMD bulb, remote damper adjusters

 
Sold- UKDM 1992 1.6 Mk1 SE - Current mods- Yokohama A048 semi slicks, 15" Lorber 7JJ deep dish alloys, Tein street springs on OEM dampers, IL Motorsport catback exhaust, IL Motorsport decat, K&N greenstuff filter, OMP 330mm racing wheel, TR Lane half cage, TR Lane harness bar, Elise bucket seats, Sparco 4 point harness, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, GV lip, Vindii ducktail
 
 


#3 Dickie

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 05:53 PM

Hi Folks,

 

Mk 2 and Mk 2.5 cams are Shim Over Bucket.

IE the shim goes between the lobe and follower, they can get spat out with high lift cams and high revs.

 

Shim under bucket, the shim fits on the valve stem under the lifter.

 

Piper will do a regrind suitable for the standard MK 2 followers you will need to fit thicker shims to compensate for the reduced base circle.

Most uprated cams do not work well without the compression being raised and other head work.

 

Aim for a modest increase in lift and duration, which will give you small gains.

If you fit a Mk 2.5 block you will gain compression and can use the Mk2 head cams etc, use all the sensors from the original engine.

 

 I think it is optimistic to expect 170 / 180 hp with just cams and no supporting mods. within the OEM rev range.

 

I am hoping for 180 Hp with my build.

 

Mk 2.5 block. Mk 2 ported head skimmed 80 thou. de shrouded valves. piper 285 cams. Mazda Motorsports shim under bucket followers. titanium valve spring retainers. uprated valve springs. uprated fuel pump. Lightened flywheel. uprated clutch. ATI crank damper. Danst GSXR itb's port matched to head. straight through exhaust.

ME 221 to control it all with increased Rev limit.

This is just a fun project for me.

It is in a 1994 Mk 1 Eunos 1800 using the OEM sensors apart from an early Mk 1 oil gauge and sender.


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#4 KieranEG6

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 07:54 PM

Was starting to wonder what Shadowraven meant. Both the MK2.5 VVT and MK2 Non vvt motors I have stripped have all been shim over bucket. 

 

Maybe 180hp was being a bit optimistic. Hadn't realized these motors were so asthmatic.160-170hp might be a more realistic goal for what minimal money I am willing to spend spicing these motors in NA form. 

 

Are shims easily available to compensate for the Piper regrinds? or are shim under buckets a must on hot cams? Seems strange Cat Cams list a few cams that state stock Valvetrain fitment suspected it wasnt so simple. 

 

As said I wasn't planning on spending substantial money chasing NA figures, the 170hp ish is a rough goal +/- 10% lol.

ITBs etc is beyond what I had in mind. At most 50-60thou head mill, DIY port clean, decat, free flowing exhaust and possibly swap the Bottom end out to the VVT BP-Z3 for more CR Bump if needed. Open to raising the Rev limit slightly if it is a must but would rather stay in the lower half of 7K rpm. Dont fancy spending on valve train just to gain few hundred extra RPM.  

 

Might have to fire Blinx an email to inquire what they offer/ advise for my goals. Spending on Porting seems a Bit OTT for what I was thinking. 

 

Cant seem to find that many decent Ex manifolds on the market unless spending £600+, the Stock Mk2.5 VVt item doesn't look all that bad to me. Are the gains from a fancy manifold really worth it or are we talking difference of a few HP? 

 

Im quite surprised at how much is needed to really open up these 1840cc BP motors. Saxo Vts 16V 1586cc manages 145-150hp just from a hot cam and exhaust system, add ITBs and those motors see 170hp with ease even being 254cc down from the BP. 


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#5 Shadowraven

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:30 PM

Yeh sorry about the shim inaccuracy, miss-spoke as I wasn't really thinking, was focused on shim vs HLA as on the mk1.

I will say for exhaust manifolds it's best having one made if you are after NA power, it's the only way to ensure you get proper gains for the money. Even a few mm difference in primary diameter can make a big difference between an exhaust making or losing power.
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UKDM 1998 1.8 Mk2 Sport - Current mods-  Custom 6 point chassis mounted front splitter and sideskirt extensions, battery cut off switch, OEM 'small skirts' and lip, HEL braided brake lines, OEM front upper strut brace with MC brace and mazdaspeed sticker, custom made 2" high flow catback exhaust, Japspeed 4-1 exhaust manifold, Lorber 15" alloys in fiat 750 maroon volcano, uniroyal rainsport2s, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, tinted indicators, colour coded reflectors, black headlight inserts, LED sidelights, SMD number plate bulbs, dimpled and grooved mtec brake discs, mintex brake pads, de-tango'd headlights, amber bulbs, RGB footwell lights, SMD interior light, Deltastyling spoiler, foamectomy seats, mazdaspeed seat belt pads, ring ultimax headlight bulbs, IL Motorsport style bar in custom paint, ford fan washer jets, Skidnation coolant reroute with Kia thermostat housing, Gates 22436 radiator hose with hose bracket, 82/85 degree twin valve thermostat, D1 spec engine bay dress bolts, stainless steel bolts throughout engine bay, EGR blanking kit, painted brake calipers, painted tow hooks front and rear, wrinkle painted cam cover, de-greened dials with white SMDs, red needles, painted cigarette lighter, painted oil filler cap, custom made cup holder, painted radiator retainers, polished slam panel, painted alternator, painted upper manifold, painted throttle body, painted header heat shield, painted relay bracket, painted loom brackets, painted diagnostics box bracket, painted wash fluid brackets, painted ABS brackets, painted airbox brackets, painted horns and brackets, painted throttle cable brackets, painted charcoal canister brackets and hard piping, painted wiper rods, painted engine hooks, painted clutch line bracket, Jass offset license plate bracket, offset square plate, 1lt foam fire extinguisher on custom bracket and custom Velcro retaining strap, POR15 rust proofed to within an inch of it's life, cavity waxed and fully seam sealed
 
UKDM 2001 mk2.5 - Current mods- SMD interior light, SMD number plate lights, Corbeau Sprint (yes it fits!), modified mk2.5 door card, Skidnation seat brackets, Corba 1046 remote central locking unit, Driftworks basics 350mm leather steering wheel, NRG short hub, NRG 2.5 quick release hub, 8" weighted gear knob, factory electric wing mirrors, factory electric aerial, Kage 4" exhaust with additional powerflow silencer, foam fire extinguisher, custom fire extinguisher mounting bracket, painted cam cover, painted oil filer cap, 15" Advan SA3Rs, Nankang NS-2R 180tw, offset plate bracket, RGB footwell lighting, sun strip, painted calipers and carriers, painted headlight inserts, softtop delete, brake fluid reservoir sock, GCR3 roll bar in custom gloss black, Corbeau Ultima Pro 2006SSU 6 point harness, push button bumper quick release pins, twin port oil catch can, engine bay respray, fully POR15 rust proofed chassis, full chassis seam seal, custom permanent hardtop side mounts, Jass permanent hardtop front mounts, M-tuned large rear rotor spacers with corresponding 276mm SVT brake discs, Freakyparts larger front rotor spacers with corresponding 11" Corado G60 front rotors, HEL braided brake lines, Byba Kits GV style front lip, SVT under chassis bracing, painted radiator brackets, 
mazdaspeed seat belt pads, charcoal canister delete, large Mazdaspeed side skirts, short shifter, 60mm alloy radiator, 3" brake ducts, upper strut brace with MC brace.
 
2004 Celica T Sport - Current mods- Meister Zeta Pro coilovers, Forged Wilwood dynalite front calipers, Yellow stuff brake pads up front, Drimpled and slotted discs, Braided brake lines, TRD stubby aerial, Short shift kit, 17" alloys powdercoated in metallic granite, TRD centre caps, Invidia exhaust, Cusco brake master cylinder brace, SMD side light bulbs, butterfly valve delete, Aux to CD converter, 8" gear knob, sun strip, interior SMD bulb, remote damper adjusters

 
Sold- UKDM 1992 1.6 Mk1 SE - Current mods- Yokohama A048 semi slicks, 15" Lorber 7JJ deep dish alloys, Tein street springs on OEM dampers, IL Motorsport catback exhaust, IL Motorsport decat, K&N greenstuff filter, OMP 330mm racing wheel, TR Lane half cage, TR Lane harness bar, Elise bucket seats, Sparco 4 point harness, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, GV lip, Vindii ducktail
 
 


#6 Zed.

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:53 PM

Cant seem to find that many decent Ex manifolds on the market unless spending £600+, the Stock Mk2.5 VVt item doesn't look all that bad to me. Are the gains from a fancy manifold really worth it or are we talking difference of a few HP? 

the off-the-shelf manifolds are somewhat pricy, probably the extra 'Scene-tax' :blink: 

for that price you should be able to get a bespoke manifold made to your spec and that allows some discussion with engine tuners re. diameters & primary/secondary lengths :thumb-up:  obviously not with a jdm related name though :whistle:

 

as an example, Vauxhall's infamous 'XE' 2L engine had a dip in the torque at around 4000rpm with conventional length manifolds, I believe SBD did a few days dyno-tuning with diferent length manifolds to get a very long primary that made noticable gains (iirc, thats 26"+ (or was it 28"?)  primary pipe lengths :wacko:  )

 

although with standard engines theres little point in an expensive or 'big' manifold :yes: 

Rich.


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50 Shades of Silver. '91 NA6CE, Not a show car :driving: 
Ohlins dampers, COP conversion, 4.778:1 & more ideas than time :yes:
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https://mighty5s.com...silver-na-eunos


#7 Dickie

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 10:20 PM

The Mk 2.5 exhaust manifold is actually very good, Where I found problems was where the pipe joins were, the pipe had been crimped to half its diameter on the two to one section, I just cut the crimped section out and plated the outside.

You can fit a Mk 2.5 system under a Mk 1 with some mods to exhaust bracket mounts, the Cat heat shield is in the wrong place so has to be sorted its a snug fit. !! If you have a MK 2 no problem.

 

You can dress the welds inside the manifold to help flow too.

 

I suspect that a custom system will not gain much till you are pushing over 200 Hp

 

As Zed mentioned a tuned pipe will give you gains with torque spread and power delivery but for a high price.

 

Ps the Saxo mentioned starts off with 10.8 - 1 CR  (The Mx5 Mk 2.5 is 10.5 - 1)


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#8 KieranEG6

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 10:46 PM

Unfortunately I am based on the Isle of man. No custom exhaust places here, only option would be to make it myself.....I can mig a simple system together but making a nice manifold I would say is beyond my skills and equipment lol. 

 

I like the idea of having a bash at improving the VVT manifold. I have a spare one of them sat there on the spare engine. 

 

I have both Mk2 and a MK2.5 sport. From the looks of things Cams and tuning is much more catered for on the Non VVt heads. I actually picked up two Mk2 1800s this weekend. Plan to service them back to healthy standard and get them on the dyno to see which has the Healthiest base line.

With my VVT to compare to. Only mods are Decat and exhaust, Best it managed was 136Hp/113ftlb. Opened the airbox and tilted lid away from exhaust managed 140hp/116ftlb. Didnt think was too bad for 100k car. 

 

Ps cool info on the Saxo motor hadnt realised they had such high CR, but still a light advantage in CR shouldn't out weigh the capacity difference. If that was the case BP with 50 thou skim should be sailing towards much higher figures.  


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#9 Zed.

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 11:30 AM

Ps cool info on the Saxo motor hadnt realised they had such high CR, but still a light advantage in CR shouldn't out weigh the capacity difference. If that was the case BP with 50 thou skim should be sailing towards much higher figures.  

the mazda mx5's 1.6 & 1.8 engine's are not great for standard production performance, need a lot of work to produce power in normally-asperated form in comparison to some other makes (peugeot / vauxhall & honda) but with forced induction shine - probably due to their roots in the 323gtx with the B6t engine B)

 

compare the 5's 1.6 engine with toyota's 4age 1.6, toyota has higher cr & higher powerband in standard trim - also a bit more power

port / cylinderhead design are part of the problem as is the compression-ratio but this is partly due to emmisions & also fuel / octane quality in diferent parts of the world as a high-compression engine ideally needs high octane fuel (or lots of electronics to adjust for the lower octane etc.)
 

one thing the 5's engines do have in standard form is drivability and this sells 'sports' cars to people that dont drive fast but just comute :thumb-up: 

 

 

sorta :blink: 

 

Rich. (going slightly off-topic?)


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50 Shades of Silver. '91 NA6CE, Not a show car :driving: 
Ohlins dampers, COP conversion, 4.778:1 & more ideas than time :yes:
Bodger :ph34r:

https://mighty5s.com...silver-na-eunos






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