Severe Vibrations From 120Kmph (70Mph) And Up - Wheels, Tyres, Suspension & handling/etc - MX5Nutz Forum

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Severe Vibrations From 120Kmph (70Mph) And Up


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#1 jarno

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 01:08 PM

Dear all,

 

Also had some help on facebook from some Nutzerz but the post seems to die quickly there.

I've been chasing a severe vibration in my car that has been occurring at 120kmph and gets very uncomfortable at 140 and starts to be terrifying at 160kmph and i dont dare to go any further to see if it disappears. (I expect it won't)

At first i thought it was the known shimmy of course and had my wheels balanced multiple times at multiple garages. Eventually i bought new wheels and transferred over my tires. Issue didn't disappear so I had the wheels balanced once more.

 

There is no change noticeable in any of these attempts to get the wheels balanced. Because I also suspected the tires i swapped around wheels front to back in combination with 2 other wheels and tires i have laying around for drifting.

 

When all this playing around with wheels and tires didnt fix anything i started looking into other things, up till now I did the following:

 

++ Aligned PPF (about 5 times all at different heights, varying from completely sagged down till 72mm between the straight edge and the PPF (Mx5 handbook spec)).

++ Rotated prop shaft 180deg

++ Swapped prop shaft for another one

++ Swapped gearbox

++ Swapped wheel axels

++ Swapped wheel bearings (all 4)

++ Retorqued engine mounts

++ Retorqued Diff mounts

 

Several other facts:

 

++ When i'm doing 140 on the highway and i press the clutch and pull the shifter out of gear and let the engine drop to idle the vibration persists

++ Shifter is shaking violently around 140 

 

 

As a diagnostic step I had the car in the air and did 140 in the garage, there was vibration but it seemed different. Only odd thing was that my tyre seems out of balance a bit but not sure how representative something like that is when theres no pressure of the road on the tyre. Also the fact that i used multiple different tires didnt make me think to much of this.

 

Garage vid 1

 

Garage vid 2

https://youtu.be/iK1GIKeeGRk

 

Garage vid 3

https://youtu.be/CLPL4LNNwVE

 

 

Only things i havent swapped that I can still think of are Diff mounts and the Diff itself.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Kr

Jarno


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#2 Shadowraven

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 01:17 PM

Are your engine mounts ok, they are often shagged and it's hard to tell without removing them.

 

Other suggestions-

 clutch or flywheel out of balance (if these have been done recently)

 suspension bushes shot

 as you said diff mounts might be shot, or any mounts affecting the rotating assembly

 are all wheels the correct centre bore (be it with spigot rings or just as they are)?

 all suspension bolts done up correctly?

 quality brake rotors (if these have been changed recently) as some cheap ebay ones can be unbalanced


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UKDM 1998 1.8 Mk2 Sport - Current mods-  Custom 6 point chassis mounted front splitter and sideskirt extensions, battery cut off switch, OEM 'small skirts' and lip, HEL braided brake lines, OEM front upper strut brace with MC brace and mazdaspeed sticker, custom made 2" high flow catback exhaust, Japspeed 4-1 exhaust manifold, Lorber 15" alloys in fiat 750 maroon volcano, uniroyal rainsport2s, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, tinted indicators, colour coded reflectors, black headlight inserts, LED sidelights, SMD number plate bulbs, dimpled and grooved mtec brake discs, mintex brake pads, de-tango'd headlights, amber bulbs, RGB footwell lights, SMD interior light, Deltastyling spoiler, foamectomy seats, mazdaspeed seat belt pads, ring ultimax headlight bulbs, IL Motorsport style bar in custom paint, ford fan washer jets, Skidnation coolant reroute with Kia thermostat housing, Gates 22436 radiator hose with hose bracket, 82/85 degree twin valve thermostat, D1 spec engine bay dress bolts, stainless steel bolts throughout engine bay, EGR blanking kit, painted brake calipers, painted tow hooks front and rear, wrinkle painted cam cover, de-greened dials with white SMDs, red needles, painted cigarette lighter, painted oil filler cap, custom made cup holder, painted radiator retainers, polished slam panel, painted alternator, painted upper manifold, painted throttle body, painted header heat shield, painted relay bracket, painted loom brackets, painted diagnostics box bracket, painted wash fluid brackets, painted ABS brackets, painted airbox brackets, painted horns and brackets, painted throttle cable brackets, painted charcoal canister brackets and hard piping, painted wiper rods, painted engine hooks, painted clutch line bracket, Jass offset license plate bracket, offset square plate, 1lt foam fire extinguisher on custom bracket and custom Velcro retaining strap, POR15 rust proofed to within an inch of it's life, cavity waxed and fully seam sealed
 
UKDM 2001 mk2.5 - Current mods- SMD interior light, SMD number plate lights, Corbeau Sprint (yes it fits!), modified mk2.5 door card, Skidnation seat brackets, Corba 1046 remote central locking unit, Driftworks basics 350mm leather steering wheel, NRG short hub, NRG 2.5 quick release hub, 8" weighted gear knob, factory electric wing mirrors, factory electric aerial, Kage 4" exhaust with additional powerflow silencer, foam fire extinguisher, custom fire extinguisher mounting bracket, painted cam cover, painted oil filer cap, 15" Advan SA3Rs, Nankang NS-2R 180tw, offset plate bracket, RGB footwell lighting, sun strip, painted calipers and carriers, painted headlight inserts, softtop delete, brake fluid reservoir sock, GCR3 roll bar in custom gloss black, Corbeau Ultima Pro 2006SSU 6 point harness, push button bumper quick release pins, twin port oil catch can, engine bay respray, fully POR15 rust proofed chassis, full chassis seam seal, custom permanent hardtop side mounts, Jass permanent hardtop front mounts, M-tuned large rear rotor spacers with corresponding 276mm SVT brake discs, Freakyparts larger front rotor spacers with corresponding 11" Corado G60 front rotors, HEL braided brake lines, Byba Kits GV style front lip, SVT under chassis bracing, painted radiator brackets, 
mazdaspeed seat belt pads, charcoal canister delete, large Mazdaspeed side skirts, short shifter, 60mm alloy radiator, 3" brake ducts, upper strut brace with MC brace.
 
2004 Celica T Sport - Current mods- Meister Zeta Pro coilovers, Forged Wilwood dynalite front calipers, Yellow stuff brake pads up front, Drimpled and slotted discs, Braided brake lines, TRD stubby aerial, Short shift kit, 17" alloys powdercoated in metallic granite, TRD centre caps, Invidia exhaust, Cusco brake master cylinder brace, SMD side light bulbs, butterfly valve delete, Aux to CD converter, 8" gear knob, sun strip, interior SMD bulb, remote damper adjusters

 
Sold- UKDM 1992 1.6 Mk1 SE - Current mods- Yokohama A048 semi slicks, 15" Lorber 7JJ deep dish alloys, Tein street springs on OEM dampers, IL Motorsport catback exhaust, IL Motorsport decat, K&N greenstuff filter, OMP 330mm racing wheel, TR Lane half cage, TR Lane harness bar, Elise bucket seats, Sparco 4 point harness, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, GV lip, Vindii ducktail
 
 


#3 jarno

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 01:30 PM

Are your engine mounts ok, they are often shagged and it's hard to tell without removing them.

 

Other suggestions-

 clutch or flywheel out of balance (if these have been done recently)

 suspension bushes shot

 as you said diff mounts might be shot, or any mounts affecting the rotating assembly

 are all wheels the correct centre bore (be it with spigot rings or just as they are)?

 all suspension bolts done up correctly?

 quality brake rotors (if these have been changed recently) as some cheap ebay ones can be unbalanced

 

Hi Shadowraven, Thanks very  much for taking the time to answer me :)

 

Diff mounts are strongflex PU about 2 years old,

The engine mounts are re-torqued recently and are the Fab9 PU ones (softest version).

 

Rear rotors are original from factory still, they are straight. (car only did 50k miles since 1992)

Suspension bushes seem OK.

 

Flywheel and clutch are FM happy meal kit. They are swapped in about 5 years ago.

 

Would you expect the flywheel/clutch assembly to still be able to cause this even if vibration persists @ 140kmph with the clutch pressed in and shifter pulled out of gear?

Because of this ive been focussing on any thing that is affected by road speed rather than engine speed. (Gearbox and back + front wheels/bearings)

 

Wheels are brand new with correct spigot rings as well indeed.


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#4 Quinvy

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 01:59 PM

When did this problem start? Was the car perfect before? Had you done anything to the car just prior to getting the vibration?
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#5 jarno

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 02:10 PM

Hi Quinvy, thanks for your input.

 

Car was straight as an arrow 2 years ago. I did couple sessions on Zandvoort track doing 200kph on the straight. I had different Tires and maybe stock diff mounts still.

 

To me seems to have gotten worse gradually over past months, car was ok at the end of last summer. I had these tires and diff mounts already then for sure. So i know for sure the car has been OK with these tires and diff mounts before. Thas also what makes it very hard to track for me. Its not like i changed 1 thing and the car started to vibrate suddenly. Even though it might have been the hardtop tention but took that off yesterday to test aswell.... no change.

 

Furthermore i didn't change anything drivetrain related.

 

Kr

Jarno


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#6 Shadowraven

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 02:41 PM

 

Are your engine mounts ok, they are often shagged and it's hard to tell without removing them.

 

Other suggestions-

 clutch or flywheel out of balance (if these have been done recently)

 suspension bushes shot

 as you said diff mounts might be shot, or any mounts affecting the rotating assembly

 are all wheels the correct centre bore (be it with spigot rings or just as they are)?

 all suspension bolts done up correctly?

 quality brake rotors (if these have been changed recently) as some cheap ebay ones can be unbalanced

 

Hi Shadowraven, Thanks very  much for taking the time to answer me :)

 

Diff mounts are strongflex PU about 2 years old,

The engine mounts are re-torqued recently and are the Fab9 PU ones (softest version).

 

Rear rotors are original from factory still, they are straight. (car only did 50k miles since 1992)

Suspension bushes seem OK.

 

Flywheel and clutch are FM happy meal kit. They are swapped in about 5 years ago.

 

Would you expect the flywheel/clutch assembly to still be able to cause this even if vibration persists @ 140kmph with the clutch pressed in and shifter pulled out of gear?

Because of this ive been focussing on any thing that is affected by road speed rather than engine speed. (Gearbox and back + front wheels/bearings)

 

Wheels are brand new with correct spigot rings as well indeed.

 

 

It's unlikely to be the clutch/flywheel after so long then. But yes in neutral the flywheel is still spinning.

 

I have no idea what it could be, that it's started when you havent changed anything and is gradually getting worse does suggest a wearing item to me though.


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UKDM 1998 1.8 Mk2 Sport - Current mods-  Custom 6 point chassis mounted front splitter and sideskirt extensions, battery cut off switch, OEM 'small skirts' and lip, HEL braided brake lines, OEM front upper strut brace with MC brace and mazdaspeed sticker, custom made 2" high flow catback exhaust, Japspeed 4-1 exhaust manifold, Lorber 15" alloys in fiat 750 maroon volcano, uniroyal rainsport2s, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, tinted indicators, colour coded reflectors, black headlight inserts, LED sidelights, SMD number plate bulbs, dimpled and grooved mtec brake discs, mintex brake pads, de-tango'd headlights, amber bulbs, RGB footwell lights, SMD interior light, Deltastyling spoiler, foamectomy seats, mazdaspeed seat belt pads, ring ultimax headlight bulbs, IL Motorsport style bar in custom paint, ford fan washer jets, Skidnation coolant reroute with Kia thermostat housing, Gates 22436 radiator hose with hose bracket, 82/85 degree twin valve thermostat, D1 spec engine bay dress bolts, stainless steel bolts throughout engine bay, EGR blanking kit, painted brake calipers, painted tow hooks front and rear, wrinkle painted cam cover, de-greened dials with white SMDs, red needles, painted cigarette lighter, painted oil filler cap, custom made cup holder, painted radiator retainers, polished slam panel, painted alternator, painted upper manifold, painted throttle body, painted header heat shield, painted relay bracket, painted loom brackets, painted diagnostics box bracket, painted wash fluid brackets, painted ABS brackets, painted airbox brackets, painted horns and brackets, painted throttle cable brackets, painted charcoal canister brackets and hard piping, painted wiper rods, painted engine hooks, painted clutch line bracket, Jass offset license plate bracket, offset square plate, 1lt foam fire extinguisher on custom bracket and custom Velcro retaining strap, POR15 rust proofed to within an inch of it's life, cavity waxed and fully seam sealed
 
UKDM 2001 mk2.5 - Current mods- SMD interior light, SMD number plate lights, Corbeau Sprint (yes it fits!), modified mk2.5 door card, Skidnation seat brackets, Corba 1046 remote central locking unit, Driftworks basics 350mm leather steering wheel, NRG short hub, NRG 2.5 quick release hub, 8" weighted gear knob, factory electric wing mirrors, factory electric aerial, Kage 4" exhaust with additional powerflow silencer, foam fire extinguisher, custom fire extinguisher mounting bracket, painted cam cover, painted oil filer cap, 15" Advan SA3Rs, Nankang NS-2R 180tw, offset plate bracket, RGB footwell lighting, sun strip, painted calipers and carriers, painted headlight inserts, softtop delete, brake fluid reservoir sock, GCR3 roll bar in custom gloss black, Corbeau Ultima Pro 2006SSU 6 point harness, push button bumper quick release pins, twin port oil catch can, engine bay respray, fully POR15 rust proofed chassis, full chassis seam seal, custom permanent hardtop side mounts, Jass permanent hardtop front mounts, M-tuned large rear rotor spacers with corresponding 276mm SVT brake discs, Freakyparts larger front rotor spacers with corresponding 11" Corado G60 front rotors, HEL braided brake lines, Byba Kits GV style front lip, SVT under chassis bracing, painted radiator brackets, 
mazdaspeed seat belt pads, charcoal canister delete, large Mazdaspeed side skirts, short shifter, 60mm alloy radiator, 3" brake ducts, upper strut brace with MC brace.
 
2004 Celica T Sport - Current mods- Meister Zeta Pro coilovers, Forged Wilwood dynalite front calipers, Yellow stuff brake pads up front, Drimpled and slotted discs, Braided brake lines, TRD stubby aerial, Short shift kit, 17" alloys powdercoated in metallic granite, TRD centre caps, Invidia exhaust, Cusco brake master cylinder brace, SMD side light bulbs, butterfly valve delete, Aux to CD converter, 8" gear knob, sun strip, interior SMD bulb, remote damper adjusters

 
Sold- UKDM 1992 1.6 Mk1 SE - Current mods- Yokohama A048 semi slicks, 15" Lorber 7JJ deep dish alloys, Tein street springs on OEM dampers, IL Motorsport catback exhaust, IL Motorsport decat, K&N greenstuff filter, OMP 330mm racing wheel, TR Lane half cage, TR Lane harness bar, Elise bucket seats, Sparco 4 point harness, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, GV lip, Vindii ducktail
 
 


#7 jarno

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 04:44 PM

Yes i agree. Only thing left to swap in my kind is the differential. Though me personaly cant immagine a diff wear in this way. Most of the times diffs that break dont break from wear, more like pieces breaking off and granading them selves as a result. Only thing would be the bearings in the diff...
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#8 jarno

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 04:45 PM

I will call my local shop again tomorrow to align the tires and wheels once more. They got a new balancing mavhine recently
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#9 Quinvy

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 06:53 PM

This is a very baffling problem indeed. I don't know what to suggest. It must be driving you insane.
Good luck with solving the problem, please keep us informed how you get on.
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#10 dadbif

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 07:26 PM

Driveshaft joint, many years ago I had a similar problem on a Mondeo.
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#11 Zed.

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 07:41 PM

Driveshaft joint, 

+1 :yes: 

or propshaft :whistle: 

OR...

 

loose propshaft bolts 

 

 

 

(hopefully not loose wheelnuts :doh: )

Rich.


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50 Shades of Silver. '91 NA6CE, Not a show car :driving: 
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https://mighty5s.com...silver-na-eunos


#12 Jim A

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 07:45 PM

Differential pinion bearing.  Jack up and jack stand the rear end so it’s safe and secure.  Grab the rear of the driveshaft just ahead of the differential.  Give it a mighty shake!  Any movement, and there’s your problem.

 

It could also be a driveshaft joint, but you’ve already swapped driveshafts, and so that would mean that both shafts would have had a bad joint(s).

 

You could repeat your experiment of spinning the drive train with the back of the car off of the ground, and with the wheels removed (replace the lug nuts to secure the brake disks).  That will eliminate wheels and tires from the equation.


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#13 jarno

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 07:57 PM

Differential pinion bearing. Jack up and jack stand the rear end so it’s safe and secure. Grab the rear of the driveshaft just ahead of the differential. Give it a mighty shake! Any movement, and there’s your problem.

It could also be a driveshaft joint, but you’ve already swapped driveshafts, and so that would mean that both shafts would have had a bad joint(s).

You could repeat your experiment of spinning the drive train with the back of the car off of the ground, and with the wheels removed (replace the lug nuts to secure the brake disks). That will eliminate wheels and tires from the equation.


Regarding the diff pinion, i did exactly that, theres no play what so ever. Theres even more play on the gearbox side on either gearboxes.

Regarding the garage testing with the wheels off, thats a good idea havent tried that yet. A mate of mine offered to swap his wheels on my car to be absolutely sure i have properly balanced wheels on my car. Will try that tomorrow.
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#14 jarno

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 07:59 PM

Driveshaft joint,

+1 :yes:

or propshaft :whistle:

OR...

loose propshaft bolts



(hopefully not loose wheelnuts :doh: )

Rich.

Tried 2 driveshafts, had my driveshafts and wheels of about 10 times in 3 weeks diagnosing this issue. Its no loose bolts i cab tell you that haha 😝
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#15 carl s

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 09:27 PM

I would agree that it doesn't seem to be likely it's engine or clutch related.  However it could be the propshaft that has thrown a weight? or maybe one of the propshaft nuts/bolts has come lose as Zed said but as you mentioned that you have swapped this it can't be..  If it was within the differential it's hard to tell but I would put my money on it being that, the reason why is because the guy who runs carpassionchannel on Youtube had a very similar issue when he swapped gearboxes turbos, wheels and just about everything else.  The vibrations all went away when he swapped out his diff, you can see the final episode here (yes i know he swapped to a Cadalac Diff) but he swapped from a MX5 diff which was causing the issue: https://www.youtube....Fcszqjso&t=491s

 

There's about five previous videos where he details all the things he tries to get rid of the vibrations but this one shows the problem the best: https://www.youtube....1sEIe-2s&t=544s

 

Good luck but my money is on the diff  :thumb-up:


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mk1 1991 Eunos with RS NB drivetrain: https://www.mx5nutz....howtopic=322586

ex - mk3 2006 2.0 sport

ex - mk2 1999 1.8is JRSC


#16 jarno

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 09:39 PM

Hi Carl, thanks alot for uour input. Ive seen his vids, but didnt he say he swapped out his diff for another mx5 diff aswell before to diagnose the vibrations? I might be mistaken. If the vibrations are still there tomorrow after swapping over the wheels from my mate the diff will be next indeed.
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#17 carl s

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 09:47 PM

Hi Carl, thanks alot for uour input. Ive seen his vids, but didnt he say he swapped out his diff for another mx5 diff aswell before to diagnose the vibrations? I might be mistaken. If the vibrations are still there tomorrow after swapping over the wheels from my mate the diff will be next indeed.

 

That might be true it's been a while since I watched all the videos, he changed the diff, propshaft, mounts & driveshafts so it has to have been one of those. You have already changed the propshaft and checked the mounts, In your list you mention you changed the wheel axles do you mean the driveshafts that go between the diff & hubs?


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mk1 1991 Eunos with RS NB drivetrain: https://www.mx5nutz....howtopic=322586

ex - mk3 2006 2.0 sport

ex - mk2 1999 1.8is JRSC


#18 jarno

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 06:53 AM

Yes i swapped all 3 axels so to say. 2 axels from diff to hubs and the prop shaft between transmission and diff.
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#19 dadbif

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 07:54 AM

I know you’ve changed just about everything, but could your PPF be loose? But then that would rattle all the time not get worse as revs increase.
Logic says it is something rotating that is out of balance,
If it’s not an external joint then it could be the diff, can you freel any play on the inner driveshaft joints/diff bearing?
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#20 jarno

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 08:02 AM

Thnx for your reply dadbif. Ye ive inspected the PPF for cracks even haha. Theres no play on any of the rotating shafts joints. Only the slip joint between the gearbox and driveshaft has very minor play but thats on both gearboxes and both driveshafts😁. But looking at the fact that this joint has an oil bearing surface and no ballbearing i would expect a very very minor play as the oil wouldnt be able to do its job without. All ppf bolts have been loose at the gearbox swap and torqued after.
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