How Much Difference Does An Extra 2Kg Per Wheel Actually Make? - Wheels, Tyres, Suspension & handling/etc - MX5Nutz Forum

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How Much Difference Does An Extra 2Kg Per Wheel Actually Make?


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#1 scoob101

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 08:55 AM

I really like the look (and price!) of these rims but they weigh 6.93kg each, which traditional wisdom says is a little on the heavy side for an NA.

 

My 1991 NA will be FI`d to about 190 WHP in Jan - so the car wont be sluggish off the line with heaver wheels, - but what about heavier wheels for general handling?

 

main.jpg

These Konig Heliums are a much more svelt 5KG. Quite a bit more pricy tho...

 

konig_helium_slvr_lg_super.jpg

 

 

 


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#2 Zed.

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 10:44 AM

reserch unsprung wieght :unsure: 

the hevier the wheels / tures the more the dampers have to work to control evrything...

Rich.


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50 Shades of Silver. '91 NA6CE, Not a show car :driving: 
Ohlins dampers, COP conversion, 4.778:1 & more ideas than time :yes:
Bodger :ph34r:

https://mighty5s.com...silver-na-eunos


#3 scoob101

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 10:54 AM

reserch unsprung wieght :unsure: 

the hevier the wheels / tures the more the dampers have to work to control evrything...

Rich.

 

Thanks - I found this which suggests to me that I shouldn't worry too much. Given I`m talking about a paltry 2kg a wheel - and the below tests were done with an additional 5kg a corner I`m wondering if the extra 300 odd quid for lighter wheels is simply wasted money. I do care about turn in performance of course, but at this point its hard for me to quantify if the heaver wheels I`m considering will even be noticeably worse. 

 

https://grassrootsmo...-really-better/


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#4 Shadowraven

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 01:06 PM

Rule of thumb is multiply by 10, so 2kg per wheel would feel similar to removing 80kg of weight from the car.


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UKDM 1998 1.8 Mk2 Sport - Current mods-  Custom 6 point chassis mounted front splitter and sideskirt extensions, battery cut off switch, OEM 'small skirts' and lip, HEL braided brake lines, OEM front upper strut brace with MC brace and mazdaspeed sticker, custom made 2" high flow catback exhaust, Japspeed 4-1 exhaust manifold, Lorber 15" alloys in fiat 750 maroon volcano, uniroyal rainsport2s, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, tinted indicators, colour coded reflectors, black headlight inserts, LED sidelights, SMD number plate bulbs, dimpled and grooved mtec brake discs, mintex brake pads, de-tango'd headlights, amber bulbs, RGB footwell lights, SMD interior light, Deltastyling spoiler, foamectomy seats, mazdaspeed seat belt pads, ring ultimax headlight bulbs, IL Motorsport style bar in custom paint, ford fan washer jets, Skidnation coolant reroute with Kia thermostat housing, Gates 22436 radiator hose with hose bracket, 82/85 degree twin valve thermostat, D1 spec engine bay dress bolts, stainless steel bolts throughout engine bay, EGR blanking kit, painted brake calipers, painted tow hooks front and rear, wrinkle painted cam cover, de-greened dials with white SMDs, red needles, painted cigarette lighter, painted oil filler cap, custom made cup holder, painted radiator retainers, polished slam panel, painted alternator, painted upper manifold, painted throttle body, painted header heat shield, painted relay bracket, painted loom brackets, painted diagnostics box bracket, painted wash fluid brackets, painted ABS brackets, painted airbox brackets, painted horns and brackets, painted throttle cable brackets, painted charcoal canister brackets and hard piping, painted wiper rods, painted engine hooks, painted clutch line bracket, Jass offset license plate bracket, offset square plate, 1lt foam fire extinguisher on custom bracket and custom Velcro retaining strap, POR15 rust proofed to within an inch of it's life, cavity waxed and fully seam sealed
 
UKDM 2001 mk2.5 - Current mods- SMD interior light, SMD number plate lights, Corbeau Sprint (yes it fits!), modified mk2.5 door card, Skidnation seat brackets, Corba 1046 remote central locking unit, Driftworks basics 350mm leather steering wheel, NRG short hub, NRG 2.5 quick release hub, 8" weighted gear knob, factory electric wing mirrors, factory electric aerial, Kage 4" exhaust with additional powerflow silencer, foam fire extinguisher, custom fire extinguisher mounting bracket, painted cam cover, painted oil filer cap, 15" Advan SA3Rs, Nankang NS-2R 180tw, offset plate bracket, RGB footwell lighting, sun strip, painted calipers and carriers, painted headlight inserts, softtop delete, brake fluid reservoir sock, GCR3 roll bar in custom gloss black, Corbeau Ultima Pro 2006SSU 6 point harness, push button bumper quick release pins, twin port oil catch can, engine bay respray, fully POR15 rust proofed chassis, full chassis seam seal, custom permanent hardtop side mounts, Jass permanent hardtop front mounts, M-tuned large rear rotor spacers with corresponding 276mm SVT brake discs, Freakyparts larger front rotor spacers with corresponding 11" Corado G60 front rotors, HEL braided brake lines, Byba Kits GV style front lip, SVT under chassis bracing, painted radiator brackets, 
mazdaspeed seat belt pads, charcoal canister delete, large Mazdaspeed side skirts, adapted NA short shifter, 60mm alloy radiator, 3" brake ducts, upper strut brace with MC brace, 3.9 type 2 torsen, 80A diff bushes, front tow hook, rear tow hook
 
2004 Celica T Sport - Current mods- Meister Zeta Pro coilovers, Forged Wilwood dynalite front calipers, Yellow stuff brake pads up front, Drimpled and slotted discs, Braided brake lines, TRD stubby aerial, Short shift kit, 17" alloys powdercoated in metallic granite, TRD centre caps, Invidia exhaust, Cusco brake master cylinder brace, SMD side light bulbs, butterfly valve delete, Aux to CD converter, 8" gear knob, sun strip, interior SMD bulb, remote damper adjusters

 
Sold- UKDM 1992 1.6 Mk1 SE - Current mods- Yokohama A048 semi slicks, 15" Lorber 7JJ deep dish alloys, Tein street springs on OEM dampers, IL Motorsport catback exhaust, IL Motorsport decat, K&N greenstuff filter, OMP 330mm racing wheel, TR Lane half cage, TR Lane harness bar, Elise bucket seats, Sparco 4 point harness, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, GV lip, Vindii ducktail
 
 


#5 Shadowraven

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 01:31 PM

Another point of note is that of tyre weights, they can vary considerably, my rainsports are only a few kg each whereas my nankangs are much much heavier. Every little helps but wheels and tyre weights should be considered in combination.


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UKDM 1998 1.8 Mk2 Sport - Current mods-  Custom 6 point chassis mounted front splitter and sideskirt extensions, battery cut off switch, OEM 'small skirts' and lip, HEL braided brake lines, OEM front upper strut brace with MC brace and mazdaspeed sticker, custom made 2" high flow catback exhaust, Japspeed 4-1 exhaust manifold, Lorber 15" alloys in fiat 750 maroon volcano, uniroyal rainsport2s, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, tinted indicators, colour coded reflectors, black headlight inserts, LED sidelights, SMD number plate bulbs, dimpled and grooved mtec brake discs, mintex brake pads, de-tango'd headlights, amber bulbs, RGB footwell lights, SMD interior light, Deltastyling spoiler, foamectomy seats, mazdaspeed seat belt pads, ring ultimax headlight bulbs, IL Motorsport style bar in custom paint, ford fan washer jets, Skidnation coolant reroute with Kia thermostat housing, Gates 22436 radiator hose with hose bracket, 82/85 degree twin valve thermostat, D1 spec engine bay dress bolts, stainless steel bolts throughout engine bay, EGR blanking kit, painted brake calipers, painted tow hooks front and rear, wrinkle painted cam cover, de-greened dials with white SMDs, red needles, painted cigarette lighter, painted oil filler cap, custom made cup holder, painted radiator retainers, polished slam panel, painted alternator, painted upper manifold, painted throttle body, painted header heat shield, painted relay bracket, painted loom brackets, painted diagnostics box bracket, painted wash fluid brackets, painted ABS brackets, painted airbox brackets, painted horns and brackets, painted throttle cable brackets, painted charcoal canister brackets and hard piping, painted wiper rods, painted engine hooks, painted clutch line bracket, Jass offset license plate bracket, offset square plate, 1lt foam fire extinguisher on custom bracket and custom Velcro retaining strap, POR15 rust proofed to within an inch of it's life, cavity waxed and fully seam sealed
 
UKDM 2001 mk2.5 - Current mods- SMD interior light, SMD number plate lights, Corbeau Sprint (yes it fits!), modified mk2.5 door card, Skidnation seat brackets, Corba 1046 remote central locking unit, Driftworks basics 350mm leather steering wheel, NRG short hub, NRG 2.5 quick release hub, 8" weighted gear knob, factory electric wing mirrors, factory electric aerial, Kage 4" exhaust with additional powerflow silencer, foam fire extinguisher, custom fire extinguisher mounting bracket, painted cam cover, painted oil filer cap, 15" Advan SA3Rs, Nankang NS-2R 180tw, offset plate bracket, RGB footwell lighting, sun strip, painted calipers and carriers, painted headlight inserts, softtop delete, brake fluid reservoir sock, GCR3 roll bar in custom gloss black, Corbeau Ultima Pro 2006SSU 6 point harness, push button bumper quick release pins, twin port oil catch can, engine bay respray, fully POR15 rust proofed chassis, full chassis seam seal, custom permanent hardtop side mounts, Jass permanent hardtop front mounts, M-tuned large rear rotor spacers with corresponding 276mm SVT brake discs, Freakyparts larger front rotor spacers with corresponding 11" Corado G60 front rotors, HEL braided brake lines, Byba Kits GV style front lip, SVT under chassis bracing, painted radiator brackets, 
mazdaspeed seat belt pads, charcoal canister delete, large Mazdaspeed side skirts, adapted NA short shifter, 60mm alloy radiator, 3" brake ducts, upper strut brace with MC brace, 3.9 type 2 torsen, 80A diff bushes, front tow hook, rear tow hook
 
2004 Celica T Sport - Current mods- Meister Zeta Pro coilovers, Forged Wilwood dynalite front calipers, Yellow stuff brake pads up front, Drimpled and slotted discs, Braided brake lines, TRD stubby aerial, Short shift kit, 17" alloys powdercoated in metallic granite, TRD centre caps, Invidia exhaust, Cusco brake master cylinder brace, SMD side light bulbs, butterfly valve delete, Aux to CD converter, 8" gear knob, sun strip, interior SMD bulb, remote damper adjusters

 
Sold- UKDM 1992 1.6 Mk1 SE - Current mods- Yokohama A048 semi slicks, 15" Lorber 7JJ deep dish alloys, Tein street springs on OEM dampers, IL Motorsport catback exhaust, IL Motorsport decat, K&N greenstuff filter, OMP 330mm racing wheel, TR Lane half cage, TR Lane harness bar, Elise bucket seats, Sparco 4 point harness, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, GV lip, Vindii ducktail
 
 


#6 Quinvy

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 08:32 PM

I never realised the substantial difference in weight between different brands of tyre, until I had to throw out all the tyres from the dealership where I was working. It really is astonishing. The same goes for sidewalls too.
I often wonder what the highly modified cars are like to drive. You know the youngsters with the body kits, wheel arches, huge width wheels et0 etc.
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#7 MR Wallace

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 08:44 AM

I went from 7.9kg wheels to 5.0kg wheels fitted with the same tyres and the difference was immediately noticeable just driving out the fitting place, the car dealt with potholes and bumps much better, at speed it generally felt "lighter on its feet" and more nimble. Performance wise I didn't notice a huge difference but as your link above shows there will be some.

 

For just the general feel on normal driving it's definitely worth it.


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#8 scoob101

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 08:46 AM

I went from 7.9kg wheels to 5.0kg wheels fitted with the same tyres and the difference was immediately noticeable just driving out the fitting place, the car dealt with potholes and bumps much better, at speed it generally felt "lighter on its feet" and more nimble. Performance wise I didn't notice a huge difference but as your link above shows there will be some.

 

For just the general feel on normal driving it's definitely worth it.

 

Thanks, this was exactly the kind of experience I was looking for. 

 

I need to weigh my wheels......


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#9 B_hawk111

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 10:01 AM

Another point of note is that of tyre weights, they can vary considerably, my rainsports are only a few kg each whereas my nankangs are much much heavier. Every little helps but wheels and tyre weights should be considered in combination.


The difference between my rotas fitted with proxes and the same wheel fitted with the giti semi slicks is mad! I need to weigh the rotas with semi slicks vs the e30 bbs wheels with road tyres, as the bbs feel substantially lighter! Probably half the reason the feel so much better on the road!
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#10 Zed.

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 10:06 AM

The difference between my rotas fitted with proxes and the same wheel fitted with the giti semi slicks is mad! I need to weigh the rotas with semi slicks vs the e30 bbs wheels with road tyres, as the bbs feel substantially lighter! Probably half the reason the feel so much better on the road!

I thought the e30 bbs wheels were heavy :blink:

 

 

Rich.


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50 Shades of Silver. '91 NA6CE, Not a show car :driving: 
Ohlins dampers, COP conversion, 4.778:1 & more ideas than time :yes:
Bodger :ph34r:

https://mighty5s.com...silver-na-eunos


#11 Shadowraven

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 10:30 AM

 

Another point of note is that of tyre weights, they can vary considerably, my rainsports are only a few kg each whereas my nankangs are much much heavier. Every little helps but wheels and tyre weights should be considered in combination.


The difference between my rotas fitted with proxes and the same wheel fitted with the giti semi slicks is mad! I need to weigh the rotas with semi slicks vs the e30 bbs wheels with road tyres, as the bbs feel substantially lighter! Probably half the reason the feel so much better on the road!

 

 

It is mad, I know my nangkangs are about 5kg heavier per tyre than my rainsports.

 

My nangkangs and SA3Rs (195/50/15) are nearly the same weight as my stock celica 205/45/17 with all seasons.


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UKDM 1998 1.8 Mk2 Sport - Current mods-  Custom 6 point chassis mounted front splitter and sideskirt extensions, battery cut off switch, OEM 'small skirts' and lip, HEL braided brake lines, OEM front upper strut brace with MC brace and mazdaspeed sticker, custom made 2" high flow catback exhaust, Japspeed 4-1 exhaust manifold, Lorber 15" alloys in fiat 750 maroon volcano, uniroyal rainsport2s, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, tinted indicators, colour coded reflectors, black headlight inserts, LED sidelights, SMD number plate bulbs, dimpled and grooved mtec brake discs, mintex brake pads, de-tango'd headlights, amber bulbs, RGB footwell lights, SMD interior light, Deltastyling spoiler, foamectomy seats, mazdaspeed seat belt pads, ring ultimax headlight bulbs, IL Motorsport style bar in custom paint, ford fan washer jets, Skidnation coolant reroute with Kia thermostat housing, Gates 22436 radiator hose with hose bracket, 82/85 degree twin valve thermostat, D1 spec engine bay dress bolts, stainless steel bolts throughout engine bay, EGR blanking kit, painted brake calipers, painted tow hooks front and rear, wrinkle painted cam cover, de-greened dials with white SMDs, red needles, painted cigarette lighter, painted oil filler cap, custom made cup holder, painted radiator retainers, polished slam panel, painted alternator, painted upper manifold, painted throttle body, painted header heat shield, painted relay bracket, painted loom brackets, painted diagnostics box bracket, painted wash fluid brackets, painted ABS brackets, painted airbox brackets, painted horns and brackets, painted throttle cable brackets, painted charcoal canister brackets and hard piping, painted wiper rods, painted engine hooks, painted clutch line bracket, Jass offset license plate bracket, offset square plate, 1lt foam fire extinguisher on custom bracket and custom Velcro retaining strap, POR15 rust proofed to within an inch of it's life, cavity waxed and fully seam sealed
 
UKDM 2001 mk2.5 - Current mods- SMD interior light, SMD number plate lights, Corbeau Sprint (yes it fits!), modified mk2.5 door card, Skidnation seat brackets, Corba 1046 remote central locking unit, Driftworks basics 350mm leather steering wheel, NRG short hub, NRG 2.5 quick release hub, 8" weighted gear knob, factory electric wing mirrors, factory electric aerial, Kage 4" exhaust with additional powerflow silencer, foam fire extinguisher, custom fire extinguisher mounting bracket, painted cam cover, painted oil filer cap, 15" Advan SA3Rs, Nankang NS-2R 180tw, offset plate bracket, RGB footwell lighting, sun strip, painted calipers and carriers, painted headlight inserts, softtop delete, brake fluid reservoir sock, GCR3 roll bar in custom gloss black, Corbeau Ultima Pro 2006SSU 6 point harness, push button bumper quick release pins, twin port oil catch can, engine bay respray, fully POR15 rust proofed chassis, full chassis seam seal, custom permanent hardtop side mounts, Jass permanent hardtop front mounts, M-tuned large rear rotor spacers with corresponding 276mm SVT brake discs, Freakyparts larger front rotor spacers with corresponding 11" Corado G60 front rotors, HEL braided brake lines, Byba Kits GV style front lip, SVT under chassis bracing, painted radiator brackets, 
mazdaspeed seat belt pads, charcoal canister delete, large Mazdaspeed side skirts, adapted NA short shifter, 60mm alloy radiator, 3" brake ducts, upper strut brace with MC brace, 3.9 type 2 torsen, 80A diff bushes, front tow hook, rear tow hook
 
2004 Celica T Sport - Current mods- Meister Zeta Pro coilovers, Forged Wilwood dynalite front calipers, Yellow stuff brake pads up front, Drimpled and slotted discs, Braided brake lines, TRD stubby aerial, Short shift kit, 17" alloys powdercoated in metallic granite, TRD centre caps, Invidia exhaust, Cusco brake master cylinder brace, SMD side light bulbs, butterfly valve delete, Aux to CD converter, 8" gear knob, sun strip, interior SMD bulb, remote damper adjusters

 
Sold- UKDM 1992 1.6 Mk1 SE - Current mods- Yokohama A048 semi slicks, 15" Lorber 7JJ deep dish alloys, Tein street springs on OEM dampers, IL Motorsport catback exhaust, IL Motorsport decat, K&N greenstuff filter, OMP 330mm racing wheel, TR Lane half cage, TR Lane harness bar, Elise bucket seats, Sparco 4 point harness, Ebay special JDMyo! gear knob, GV lip, Vindii ducktail
 
 


#12 dadbif

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 03:43 PM

A bit of reading
https://www.miata.ne...el_weights.html
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#13 B_hawk111

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 04:25 PM

The difference between my rotas fitted with proxes and the same wheel fitted with the giti semi slicks is mad! I need to weigh the rotas with semi slicks vs the e30 bbs wheels with road tyres, as the bbs feel substantially lighter! Probably half the reason the feel so much better on the road!

I thought the e30 bbs wheels were heavy :blink:


Rich.

I don't know to be honest, haven't weighed them yet, but they certainly seem lighter than the rotas with semi slicks!
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