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#41 Shadowraven

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 12:31 AM

 

if your engine is in decent condition most of the gak coming out will be water but it should evaporate, but the rest will be some thick-ish oil that joined in the blow-by, - @jon I think of it as aromatic fuely hydrocarbons -  (i.e. things in the fuel that didn't get to combust and didn't weren't volatile enough evaporate either) :-)

 

And in the standard setup, that water/gak cocktail gets drawn into the inlet and makes its way out of the exhaust, never to be seen again. If you are draining it back to the sump, it'll make a nice mayo that will clog stuff up. Most 'street' cars don't get their oil hot enough to burn it off...

 

 

Im pretty sure most of it will evaporate off at a normal operating temp of 80C without much trouble, it's not a huge amount of moisture in it. When you leave a car over night water vapor naturally condenses and "pollutes" the oil anyway, if it didnt evaporate off with normal use this would just build up and we'd all have milky oil. 

 

For the return to sump example we are also talking specifically about a very hard driven track car with a 2zz engine, the blow by can be enough to warrant that solution. I'm not saying it's applicable to an mx5. The point of a catch can is to separate and retain oil and moisture for later disposal so for most it likely is better to just dump it periodically.


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#42 dadbif

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 09:34 AM

Because it sounds like you just have a VTA on the crank side. The PCV side will still work as normal under partial throttle and you might not be making enough boost to be overcoming the PCV and pressurising the crank case at WOT.


What is a VTA?
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#43 jon

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 09:56 AM

 


 

Im pretty sure most of it will evaporate off at a normal operating temp of 80C without much trouble, it's not a huge amount of moisture in it. When you leave a car over night water vapor naturally condenses and "pollutes" the oil anyway, if it didnt evaporate off with normal use this would just build up and we'd all have milky oil. 

 

For the return to sump example we are also talking specifically about a very hard driven track car with a 2zz engine, the blow by can be enough to warrant that solution. I'm not saying it's applicable to an mx5. The point of a catch can is to separate and retain oil and moisture for later disposal so for most it likely is better to just dump it periodically.

 

 

Nearly everyone is running a reasonably standard PCV, where the water/oil emulsion and excess blowby would be drawn off into the inlet and burnt. Running a catch can to the sump might be a good idea on certain engines, but for a mazda, based on experience of what ends up in a catch can I wouldn't want to put it back in my sump... 

 

Because it sounds like you just have a VTA on the crank side. The PCV side will still work as normal under partial throttle and you might not be making enough boost to be overcoming the PCV and pressurising the crank case at WOT.


What is a VTA?

 

 

Vent to Air


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#44 threeflies

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 04:42 PM

Thanks for all your input. Seems I don't need it, shouldn't have bought it and if your car runs great why tinker.

 

Catch removed forever, I'm saving a litre a month on 0w-40.

 

Cheers all. :D


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#45 Zed.

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 05:10 PM

 if your car runs great why tinker.

 

theres a whole industry out there that would like you to think differently :yes: 

although some Might sell Snake-oil 
Rich.


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#46 dadbif

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 10:17 PM

if your car runs great why tinker.


theres a whole industry out there that would like you to think differently :yes:

although some Might sell Snake-oil
Rich.

Fuelled by armchair internet engineers 😉
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#47 Zed.

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 11:06 PM

 

 

if your car runs great why tinker.


theres a whole industry out there that would like you to think differently :yes:

although some Might sell Snake-oil
Rich.

Fuelled by armchair internet engineers

 

hummmmm.....


maybe I need an Armchair :whistle: 

Rich.


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50 Shades of Silver. '91 NA6CE, Not a show car :driving: 
Ohlins dampers, goin drysump, EPS, 4.778:1 & more ideas than time :yes:
Bodger :ph34r:

https://mighty5s.com...silver-na-eunos


#48 dadbif

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 08:29 AM

There’s room on my sofa....🤪🤪

It’s the Goebells effect, misinformation, repeated often enough, becomes the truth.

“It must be true, I read it on the internet”
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#49 Zed.

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 12:19 PM

There’s room on my sofa....

It’s the Goebells effect, misinformation, repeated often enough, becomes the truth.

“It must be true, I read it on the internet”

Hummmmmmmm...

re-writing history also?

coolant reroutes & frame-rails then

ACHTUNG! :stirthepot: 

Rich.


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50 Shades of Silver. '91 NA6CE, Not a show car :driving: 
Ohlins dampers, goin drysump, EPS, 4.778:1 & more ideas than time :yes:
Bodger :ph34r:

https://mighty5s.com...silver-na-eunos


#50 dadbif

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 10:14 PM

Spitfuer!!!!
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#51 BEN99W

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 07:47 AM

Whilst this thread seems to be reaching its natural conclusion, Ill just chip in the slight variation that I run because it works for me.

Turbocharged VVT engine with catchcan connected to the PCV. Catchcan then connected to the inlet, but via a one way valve to prevent boost pressurising the camcover. I've only ever had small quantities of moisture in the can.

My exhaust side still vents to the airfilter to turbo pipework as per BEGi design. Every few years I do clean that pipe out as its a little oily. I do have a second can I could use here, venting to atmosphere, but its all a bit busy under the bonnet there and it all seems to work fine anyway.

Ben
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#52 dadbif

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 08:59 AM

Basically the OEM layout with a catch can between the PCV and inlet? But with non return valve instead of PCV.

Nothing in can, so is it really necessary...
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#53 jon

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 09:37 AM

Basically the OEM layout with a catch can between the PCV and inlet? But with non return valve instead of PCV.

Nothing in can, so is it really necessary...

 

Between the PCV and the inlet is the only way a catchcan should be installed on an OE setup, otherwise you are either going to introduce massive vacuum leaks or draw air past the throttle body when it's not wanted. Adding a one way valve (eg. a diesel check valve) to protect the boost overwhelming the PCV (which is known to leak, even the 323GTX ones) is an added bonus. 


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#54 dadbif

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 09:55 AM

Not necessary unless you are going on track then?

I am however investigating the fitment of a catch can on my daily, it has a GDI petrol engine, these suffer from a build up of gunge on the back of the inlet valves, caused by the oily air from the EGR system. No petrol washes over the valves so they don’t get cleaned.
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#55 jon

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 10:30 AM

Not really (on a mazda engine) unless you have a highly stressed engine - lots of boost, sustained high RPMs, or it's a bit tired and suffering lots of blowby IMHO. 

 

Build up from EGR is different - that's hot exhaust gas being recirculated, standard catch can won't work as it's a gas at several hundred C... Not sure if there's a real solution other than blanking it off!


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#56 dadbif

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 06:09 PM

If I blank it off on my car it throws up a warning light!
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#57 jon

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 06:12 PM

Take the bulb out of the warning light ;)

 

Some cars if you leave the gubbins in place but blank the inlet or the exhaust side so that it can't recirculate they don't throw a check engine light, it seems to depend on the car and how complex the ecu is. Instant MOT fail though, if it's obvious to the tester...


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#58 dadbif

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 10:32 PM

Mines a Citroen, it’s not a bulb, it’s a segment on a screen, bit of a bugger. I’d remove the bulb otherwise.
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